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AMD Ryzen Gets Delidded - And It Is a Tricky Thing to Do
We mentioned in our reviews that you should not delid AMD Ryzen processors for the sheer fact that even the heatspreader has sensors and that it is soldered. Next to that AMD did the cooling part rather well so the benefits of a lower temperatures versus the risk of bricking that processor might not be worth it.
Well, that thesis has been confirmed, pro-overclocker der8auer took a Ryzen 7 1700 (well actually multiple of them) and delidded Ryzen 7 to see what was hiding behind the Integrated Heatspreader (IHS). It took der8auer multiple attemempts to get a succesful delidded processor. To be more precise, it actually it took him three processors hence we can already conclude that the process is very risky.
In the end he succeeded though, in the photos below (clock thumbnails) you can see a Ryzen 7 1700 CPU delidded. You will notice a solder layer that ties directly to the IHS. Looking att he processor you can see multiple capacitors, all nicely covered by some sort of silicone protective layer, so AMD certainly went all the way here.
So what weas the end-reult delidding and cooling ? Well, der8auer shows it in a video, but the he achieved a drop of 2 degrees C lower on overall temperatures with a cooler sitting directly on top of the processor die. In short, and what we have been saying. Please do not delid the processor guys, chances are high you'll damage it and the temperature drop certainly doiesn't justify you bricking the processor or loosing warranty.
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We've been adressing the topic widely in our reviews, it makes little sense for Ryzen processors that are that powerful to not perform as well in games in CPU bound situations. Microsoft now sends wo...
Review: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X processor - 03/06/2017 09:34 AM
In this review we take a look at a new Ryzen series processor from AMD. We peek at the Ryzen 7 1800X, a 499 USD processor that has eight cores and 16 threads (SMT). The 8-core processor will be tested...
Review: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X processor - 03/03/2017 02:44 PM
We tested the Flagship processor, now we review the Ryzen 7 1700X Processor that is a 100 bucks cheaper. The 8-core processor will be tested on an X370 motherboard. Read the review here....
Corsair is Ready for AMD Ryzen - 02/28/2017 09:35 PM
Corsair today announced its extensive compatibility for the groundbreaking new range of AMD Ryzen processors and the AM4 platform. With a completely new CPU architecture, chipset and CPU socket, AM...
AMD Ryzen Unboxing video - A peek at the Ryzen 7 1800X Reviewer Kit from AMD - 02/27/2017 06:19 PM
While videos and unboxing videos really aren't our thing (hey geeky looking Dutch guy with bad English accent) some of you have requested an unvoxing video of the AMD Ryzen press kit. We're allowed ...
icedman
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Senior Member
Posts: 1124
Joined: 2013-02-22
#5404782 Posted on: 03/10/2017 01:29 PM
Good to see solder under the hood again, and I'm surprised they're using a dual die setup like my old q6600 which I delidded really easily using the vice method to practice befor doing my current 3770k.
Good to see solder under the hood again, and I'm surprised they're using a dual die setup like my old q6600 which I delidded really easily using the vice method to practice befor doing my current 3770k.
Kaarme
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Posts: 2622
Joined: 2013-03-10
#5404783 Posted on: 03/10/2017 01:36 PM
Intel's CPUs have less transistors than an average GPU. However, GPUs aren't sold alone to consumers, they always come with the whole video card consisting of the GPU, fast memory, regulators, PCB, cooling element and fans, backplate, connectors, in a big box. Yet that whole packet costs the same or less than the Intel CPU with less transistors. Somehow AMD and Nvidia still make profit even out of the mainstream GPUs.
For example, the AMD 380X GPU, Tonga, has 5 billion transistors. Intel i7 6700k has 1.75 billion. A 380X video card with 4GB of memory had a launch price of 229 dollars. The i7 6700k CPU alone had a launch price of 350 dollars (alright, it might come with a 5 dollars cooler, I'm not sure)!
Does this make sense to you? Intel gains incomprehensible profit from every single CPU it sells, especially the more expensive types.
I'm more and more baffled how AMD can offer a CPU with this performance for this price with proper build quality like this as well. Is AMD simply selling these first gen Ryzen CPU's at a ridiculous low price to regain market without making a lot of profit, or is Intel really that overpriced?
Intel's CPUs have less transistors than an average GPU. However, GPUs aren't sold alone to consumers, they always come with the whole video card consisting of the GPU, fast memory, regulators, PCB, cooling element and fans, backplate, connectors, in a big box. Yet that whole packet costs the same or less than the Intel CPU with less transistors. Somehow AMD and Nvidia still make profit even out of the mainstream GPUs.
For example, the AMD 380X GPU, Tonga, has 5 billion transistors. Intel i7 6700k has 1.75 billion. A 380X video card with 4GB of memory had a launch price of 229 dollars. The i7 6700k CPU alone had a launch price of 350 dollars (alright, it might come with a 5 dollars cooler, I'm not sure)!
Does this make sense to you? Intel gains incomprehensible profit from every single CPU it sells, especially the more expensive types.
Mufflore
Senior Member
Posts: 13038
Joined: 2010-05-22
Senior Member
Posts: 13038
Joined: 2010-05-22
#5404796 Posted on: 03/10/2017 02:00 PM
So AMD has done it right in a $300 CPU, while Intel hasn't done it right in 4(?) generations of CPU's now. Broadwell-E processors are better, but still not good enough.
I'm more and more baffled how AMD can offer a CPU with this performance for this price with proper build quality like this as well. Is AMD simply selling these first gen Ryzen CPU's at a ridiculous low price to regain market without making a lot of profit, or is Intel really that overpriced?
Maybe a combination of both.
The problem is that AMD couldnt do it right so were forced to compensate with a soldered die lid to get the clock speed up.
If they didnt do this they would fall short of 4GHz which would reduce sales substantially.
They would have had far more variability making the standard base + boost clocks much lower as well.
So AMD has done it right in a $300 CPU, while Intel hasn't done it right in 4(?) generations of CPU's now. Broadwell-E processors are better, but still not good enough.
I'm more and more baffled how AMD can offer a CPU with this performance for this price with proper build quality like this as well. Is AMD simply selling these first gen Ryzen CPU's at a ridiculous low price to regain market without making a lot of profit, or is Intel really that overpriced?
Maybe a combination of both.
The problem is that AMD couldnt do it right so were forced to compensate with a soldered die lid to get the clock speed up.
If they didnt do this they would fall short of 4GHz which would reduce sales substantially.
They would have had far more variability making the standard base + boost clocks much lower as well.
Variac
Junior Member
Posts: 18
Joined: 2003-12-15
Junior Member
Posts: 18
Joined: 2003-12-15
#5404828 Posted on: 03/10/2017 03:05 PM
Intel's CPUs have less transistors than an average GPU. However, GPUs aren't sold alone to consumers, they always come with the whole video card consisting of the GPU, fast memory, regulators, PCB, cooling element and fans, backplate, connectors, in a big box. Yet that whole packet costs the same or less than the Intel CPU with less transistors. Somehow AMD and Nvidia still make profit even out of the mainstream GPUs.
For example, the AMD 380X GPU, Tonga, has 5 billion transistors. Intel i7 6700k has 1.75 billion. A 380X video card with 4GB of memory had a launch price of 229 dollars. The i7 6700k CPU alone had a launch price of 350 dollars (alright, it might come with a 5 dollars cooler, I'm not sure)!
Does this make sense to you? Intel gains incomprehensible profit from every single CPU it sells, especially the more expensive types.
I agree that Intel has a high profit, but that's not a proper way to do a comparison and prove it.
Intel's CPUs have less transistors than an average GPU. However, GPUs aren't sold alone to consumers, they always come with the whole video card consisting of the GPU, fast memory, regulators, PCB, cooling element and fans, backplate, connectors, in a big box. Yet that whole packet costs the same or less than the Intel CPU with less transistors. Somehow AMD and Nvidia still make profit even out of the mainstream GPUs.
For example, the AMD 380X GPU, Tonga, has 5 billion transistors. Intel i7 6700k has 1.75 billion. A 380X video card with 4GB of memory had a launch price of 229 dollars. The i7 6700k CPU alone had a launch price of 350 dollars (alright, it might come with a 5 dollars cooler, I'm not sure)!
Does this make sense to you? Intel gains incomprehensible profit from every single CPU it sells, especially the more expensive types.
I agree that Intel has a high profit, but that's not a proper way to do a comparison and prove it.
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Senior Member
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Joined: 2006-02-14
It is true that there are some serious issues with soldering the die to the IHS. of course it's possible, but to do it right is tedious and expensive, because of differing thermal expansion for different materials. Using just one type of metal will definitely damage the die because of the pressure caused by the differing expansions, so the techniques used for soldering requires many different layered and mixed metals, some of which very expensive.
This problem becomes bigger as the dies become smaller, too.
I'm aware. They've long been using different layers for different reasons, probably from the start. That's never been a real issue, it's just something Intel like removing to cut costs on. AMD aren't using indium on their dies for fun, that stuff ain't free.
Edit: How could I forget that part of the reason for using indium is to use gold. The gold probably costs more than the indium.