AMD Ryzen and Threadripper Prices Over The Weekend Dropped Significantly

#5494393 Posted on: 11/21/2017 04:55 PM

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My BOINC rig is made of spare and unwanted parts, and is only being used to help heat up my apartment. That being said, I don't care enough about it to spend anywhere near that much for 900W. Despite that this PC would've been worth roughly $3000 new back in 2011*, I spent roughly $600 total on it. I am not by any means undermining your choice, but I don't care about efficiency ratings, circuit protection, construction quality, modularity, number of rails, fan loudness, LEDs, etc. All I care about is if it supports 2x 8-pin PCIe power connectors, 2x 6-pin PCIe connectors, is not a white-label, and can sustain at least 750W of load at hours at a time.

I've sincerely considered getting one of those Pico PSUs along with a server PSU (which are 12v-only) since they're extremely cheap, reliable, and efficient, but the cost-effective PicoPSUs aren't suitable for overclocked CPUs, and the PSU converters are oddly expensive. Besides, server PSU fans tend to be pretty obnoxious. Fan noise isn't a big deal to me, but I have my limits. So it's been kind of annoying.

*
I have a couple of older systems that I'm using for computing / mining. I keep them running at full load at all times, and I keep them in the other room so I don't have to hear them (the fans on the Asus RX 580 Dual are annoyingly loud). My Core i7 4790K is running in enhanced turbo and has two GPUs, and is powered by a 650 watt PSU. The other system has a very old PSU (not sure of the wattage) but can still power an Athlon II X4 and a GTX 780 Classified.

IMO, 900+ watts is only needed for very high-performance PCs. I once got up to 800 watts on my Threadripper system, and that was with three GPUs with everything at full load (including all 16 CPU cores). Have you measured the actual wattage of your BOINC rig?

#5494423 Posted on: 11/21/2017 05:42 PM

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Yes - I have measured the actual wattage, using an AC watt meter. Back when my CPU was still at 4.7GHz (the silicon has been steadily degrading; I had to underclock to 4.4 from 4.5 just last night) and I had 4x GPUs in the rig, I was peaking at around 650W. I wasn't running any CPU workloads at the time, so I had to remove a GPU. Keep in mind my 700W PSU was something like $45 USD back when it was new nearly a decade ago, and it was spewing very warm air, so I was certainly treading dangerous territory there.

This PSU is something like 75% efficient, so I do understand that in reality it was probably actually using around 500W to drive the hardware, but, it is important to keep in mind the actual rating of the PSU is very rarely the wattage it can sustain. In many cases (particularly with cheap models) a 700W unit can only provide spikes up to 700W, but may only be able to sustain 500W under 24/7 use (just a hypothetical). Also note that for most PSUs, the loss of efficiency multiplies once you get beyond 40-60% load. So even if you've only got a 150W part, it could end up costing you over 200W if your PSU is over-worked. Something else important for me to point out is I eventually intend to retire my R9 290 to be the 4th GPU in this rig. In case you're not aware, that GPU alone can reach 300W, depending on the workload.

So all that being said, I am left with 2 choices:
A. Buy a high-quality 800-900W unit where it can reliably sustain the load it advertises, but will be pushed to its limits.
B. Buy a low-quality 1000W+ unit and give it some breathing room.
Option A will be more expensive and to me is not worth it, because pushing the unit that hard day in and day out will shorten its lifespan too quickly. Meanwhile, you can buy 1KW units for $70 (so about half the price of yours). Due to cheaper components, it probably won't live longer than the over-worked high-quality unit, but, two of these units together ought to live longer. Of course, cheaper units may not offer circuit protection, but none of this hardware is especially important to me. In your case, you've actually got something worth caring about, so buying a good quality unit is a good priority.

EDIT:
If you're wondering why I haven't bought one of these $70 1KW units yet, it's simply because my current unit still works, and, because I'm waiting for Black Friday deals. Sure, the 4th GPU would be a nice addition, but I don't currently need it.

#5494459 Posted on: 11/21/2017 07:11 PM

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Prices have dropped quite a bit in Norway too. You can get a 1600 for around the same as a 2500k used to cost.

#5494478 Posted on: 11/21/2017 08:12 PM

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This couldn't have happened in a better time, though I haven't yet seen the prices dropping in Finland. I sure hope they do as I'm in the market for a TR CPU.

EDIT

Whoa I just found one shop listing 1800x at 349, that's crazy, they don't sell TR CPUs though -.-
But wholly boy that price is so tempting I might pull the trigger and go with the 1800x.

I can get a 1700x for €269+like €10-15shipping new!! WOW!

So tempted to cancel my 2 orders of 8600k(€300) and 8700k(€430).

Not saying this to start anything. It's just a personal opinion/situation.

Can't beat price wise a 1700x@€269!

What's your thoughts guys? My cooling setup would go to waste(D5+480mm+240mm) but wth.. :p

I have to ask since we both live in Fin, which retailer sells it at that price? I only found 1 homeland retailer, Gigantti, selling Ryzens at a lower price but they list 1700X at 299. Tell me! ;-)

#5494484 Posted on: 11/21/2017 09:07 PM

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Yeah, I guess if you're using four GPUs then you'd need a beefy power supply. I currently have four systems (2 retired, 2 in use) and spread out six GPUs across them, with no more than two per system (I tried adding a third GPU to my Threadripper system but it was struggling to breathe so I took it out). For BOINC though I emphasize CPU power over GPU power, as my main project is World Community Grid.

Speaking of PSUs, my two retired systems are currently set up in an unconventional way. I wanted to use my GTX 780 on my Athlon II system, but it required two 8-pin connectors while the PSU only had two 6-pin connectors. I was able to combine them to make an 8-pin, but it still needed another 8-pin connector to function. I then got the crazy idea to use an extra 8-pin connector from the PSU of the other system - and it actually worked! I'm not sure if this setup is entirely safe, but it's been running this way for several months now at constant full load, so...

#5494644 Posted on: 11/22/2017 01:56 PM

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Huh i found it 193 euros here in greece and in general it is easy to find it on 195 to 199 i was not expecting that!

#5494688 Posted on: 11/22/2017 03:52 PM

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The price drops are more than offset by the doubling of ram prices in the last 10 months, unfortunately. That said, I would love me some Threadripper X1920 but, I have no need to upgrade, I already did my non video card upgrading back in March.

#5494718 Posted on: 11/22/2017 05:14 PM

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Yeah with your TR setup, an ~800W unit with 2x GPUs sounds just about right. If you would still like to use a 3rd GPU though, I would recommend you look into a riser cable. Obviously you're probably not going to use it for display purposes, so it doesn't matter if you mount it in a place that blocks off the display ports. I use a couple riser cables for my rig, though I use mine for a NIC and a diagnostic card.
I too run WCG - I personally like all of their goals more than most other projects, and their research sounds more promising than most.


Not sure if you're aware, but there are 6-pin to 8-pin converters out there, but obviously I don't condone them. Keep in mind that the 6-pin PCIe connector has three 12v pins and three ground pins, but in actuality, only two of the 12v pins are actually in use; the middle one is just a "sense" pin. Meanwhile in the 8-pin connectors, all three 12v pins deliver power, and one of the additional ground pins acts as the new "sense" pin. When converting a 6-pin to an 8-pin, in the perspective of the PSU, the only difference is just one of the ground pins may be under more load. If you hadn't noticed, many PSUs with the 6+2 connectors just use a Y cable, where they effectively act like a 6-to-8-pin converter anyway. So ultimately the only thing that really matters is:
A. Can the rail attached to the power connectors deliver enough wattage?
B. Is the wire gauge low enough to support the current flowing through it?
If you're unsure about the answer of either of these and/or if you don't like taking chances, then you definitely should not use one of these converters. Generally speaking, the manufacturer gives you a 6-pin connector because they know what their unit can handle. But, if your unit uses the same gauge wire throughout and it already has an 8 or 6+2 connector, then you can usually safely use one of these converters, as long as you know you aren't exceeding the unit's output wattage.

Anyway, I've had good luck with these converters. My personal rule of thumb is if variations of your GPU are shipped with a 6-pin connector but yours doesn't because it is pre-overclocked, then using one of these converters is usually safe (at least if you bring the GPU back down to stock speeds). But again, I don't condone the use of them; I'd rather not see someone's rig go up in smoke because they wanted to save a few .

#5494745 Posted on: 11/22/2017 07:50 PM

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I'm currently using a riser cable on my Haswell system. I briefly flirted with the idea of using it on my TR system (as I described here: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/pcie-socket-spacing-too-small.417246/ ), but I found that there was no way to close up the case, nor any place where I could comfortably store it within the case. I keep this system on my desk and so I want it looking neat and clean.


I might consider it when do I my next maintenance. It's working fine as it is so I'm good for now. Thanks for the suggestion.

#5494761 Posted on: 11/22/2017 08:41 PM

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OCUK - Ryzen 1700 = £230 , THAT IS A BARGAIN

#5494765 Posted on: 11/22/2017 08:48 PM

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You'd be surprised how many riser cables you can use until data integrity becomes a problem. Even with cheap cables, you ought to be able to run a GPU over a meter of risers. At that rate, you could make the GPU external haha. But yeah I hear you on finding a place to comfortably store it and keeping things tidy. Anyway if you want a suggestion my input for your suggestion, I left a reply to the thread you linked to.

#5494828 Posted on: 11/23/2017 02:17 AM

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TR 1920X €650 and €800 for 1950X! o_O


Edit: Thinking of going totally OG el-cheepo and ordering 1700x+Prime PRO(used tho) = €388

I think that's an amazing deal!

8600K(€300) + Asrock Extreme 4 = €470
8700k(€430) + Asrock Extreme 4 = €600

#5495015 Posted on: 11/23/2017 05:19 PM

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AMD's master plan:
- Sell Ryzen cheaply
- Make people buy AM4 board
- Boost 30% performance per core with new upgraded Ryzen
- Obviously supports AM4
- People buy new AMD CPUs for upgrade

Why do you call this a master plan? If it was a master plan Intel would do it too. Instead this is what Intel is doing :

- Sell cpus at high price
- Make people buy expensive boards
- Boost 30% performance per core with new upgraded cpus
- Obviously make a new socket for every new cpus even refresh of existing architecture because reasons
- People have the buy a whole new system again

More seriously that's why i bought a Ryzen instead of Intel this time (my first AMD cpu/gpu in a looooooong while). I fully expect AMD to support AM4 socket for at least another round of cpus. Maybe even two who knows? In the case of Intel i fully 120% expect them to have a new socket ready for next year ... because you know reasons.

#5495020 Posted on: 11/23/2017 05:27 PM

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Not necessarily. Intel makes sales based on the name alone. They don't have to try - people will buy their products anyway. All Intel has to do is release a product that's the fastest in its class (even if getting there is undesirable).