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Guru3D Rig of the Month - December 2019
AMD Roadmaps mention RDNA2, ZEN3 and ZEN4
If you think AMD has been peaking this year ... well sure, they have been doing just that. But that doesn't mean there's more in that rendering pipeline. In a financial briefing, two new slides popped up, detailing a roadmap mentioning RDNA2, ZEN3 and ZEN4
While the roadmap isn't exactly shocking news, it confirms that the design phase of Zen 3 is complete and that will be a "7 nm+" process refresh. Interesting to see is the mention of ZEN4 which is in its design phase, as is Zen 5, we assume. "AMD Corporate Deck-September 2019" covers AMD's plans up-to 2022.
A similar roadmap was shown for the Radeon branch from 2017 to 2021, but not 2022. The 7 nanometer rdna designs are now being shipped, and a new RDNA2 design based on a 7nm+ process would be in its design phase. All this is on schedule and in line with the Xbox Scarlett that will use the new architecture, this console would appear in 2020.
AMD Roadmap Updates and APUs with Vega Announcements - 01/08/2018 08:53 AM
Alongside announcing the first desktop Ryzen processors with built-in Radeon Vega Graphics, AMD also detailed the full line up of Ryzen mobile APUs including the new Ryzen PRO and Ryzen 3 models, and ...
New AMD roadmap gives more insight in polaris 10 and 11 - 04/21/2016 08:07 AM
A new roadmap appeared online from AMD, in this roadmap you can spot some plans for the future graphics cards based on the Polaris 10 and 11 GPU design. The roadmap also makes it pretty clear that the...
New AMD roadmap shows Vega and Navi Architectures - 03/15/2016 07:28 AM
While the Polaris GPU architecture is to be released this year, two new architecture (or product series) code-names have surfaced in a roadmap shown in an AMD presentation, Vega and Navi....
AMD Roadmap Leaked from Japan Surfaces - 11/02/2009 11:01 AM
New slides from a Japanese website are AMD's roadmap for all platforms (CPU, GPU, IGP, Chipset) up to 2011. The biggest surprise is the 2010 GPU with a die shrink towards 32nm. The rumoured codenames ...
D1stRU3T0R
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#5710201 Posted on: 09/11/2019 06:17 PM
I really am curious if Zen 3 is going to be more of a Zen2+ then a whole new generation like Zen2 was.
It seems really quick for them to have a major architecture change, since Zen 3 is supposed to be released in 2020. Then again, i feel like Zen 3 will be DDR5, and maybe that'll be the major reason it's not considered Zen2+.
I hope not. I want Zen5 with AM5, DDR5, PCIe5, with a GPU having GDDR5X, with 5 FAN. Coming 5/5/202x (not 2025)
I really am curious if Zen 3 is going to be more of a Zen2+ then a whole new generation like Zen2 was.
It seems really quick for them to have a major architecture change, since Zen 3 is supposed to be released in 2020. Then again, i feel like Zen 3 will be DDR5, and maybe that'll be the major reason it's not considered Zen2+.
I hope not. I want Zen5 with AM5, DDR5, PCIe5, with a GPU having GDDR5X, with 5 FAN. Coming 5/5/202x (not 2025)
Undying
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#5710203 Posted on: 09/11/2019 06:23 PM
Im more interested in gpu segment and rdna2. Looks like thats a chip in ps5 and next xbox console coming next year with a raytracing support.
Im more interested in gpu segment and rdna2. Looks like thats a chip in ps5 and next xbox console coming next year with a raytracing support.
Evildead666
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Posts: 1264
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#5710205 Posted on: 09/11/2019 06:31 PM
I really am curious if Zen 3 is going to be more of a Zen2+ then a whole new generation like Zen2 was.
It seems really quick for them to have a major architecture change, since Zen 3 is supposed to be released in 2020. Then again, i feel like Zen 3 will be DDR5, and maybe that'll be the major reason it's not considered Zen2+.
Next Zen is going to be an iteration of Zen.
Basically the same, with a few small changes here and there.
Besides, DDR4 has only been a little while yet, and we don't know if the DDR5 controllers are fast and hot, or cool.
Im more interested in gpu segment and rdna2. Looks like thats a chip in ps5 and next xbox console coming next year with a raytracing support.
Hopefully a big chip, or chiplets, to replace the high end
I really am curious if Zen 3 is going to be more of a Zen2+ then a whole new generation like Zen2 was.
It seems really quick for them to have a major architecture change, since Zen 3 is supposed to be released in 2020. Then again, i feel like Zen 3 will be DDR5, and maybe that'll be the major reason it's not considered Zen2+.
Next Zen is going to be an iteration of Zen.
Basically the same, with a few small changes here and there.
Besides, DDR4 has only been a little while yet, and we don't know if the DDR5 controllers are fast and hot, or cool.
Im more interested in gpu segment and rdna2. Looks like thats a chip in ps5 and next xbox console coming next year with a raytracing support.
Hopefully a big chip, or chiplets, to replace the high end
asturur
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#5710212 Posted on: 09/11/2019 06:39 PM
maybe the chiplet design allow them to make changes to the I/O part and to the chiplets separately, allowing for faster iterations.
I wish more details were shared, but i also not like the hype trains so much.
maybe the chiplet design allow them to make changes to the I/O part and to the chiplets separately, allowing for faster iterations.
I wish more details were shared, but i also not like the hype trains so much.
Evildead666
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#5710216 Posted on: 09/11/2019 06:44 PM
maybe the chiplet design allow them to make changes to the I/O part and to the chiplets separately, allowing for faster iterations.
I wish more details were shared, but i also not like the hype trains so much.
IO part will likely contain GDDR5/X and HBM controllers (edit : and IF and PCIe lanes), the chiplets should just interface via Infinity fabric.
Good thing is they will likely be able to go to 8 chiplets, at least.
maybe the chiplet design allow them to make changes to the I/O part and to the chiplets separately, allowing for faster iterations.
I wish more details were shared, but i also not like the hype trains so much.
IO part will likely contain GDDR5/X and HBM controllers (edit : and IF and PCIe lanes), the chiplets should just interface via Infinity fabric.
Good thing is they will likely be able to go to 8 chiplets, at least.
Aura89
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#5710224 Posted on: 09/11/2019 07:04 PM
Next Zen is going to be an iteration of Zen.
Where is information on this? I can't find really any real information about Zen3 other then it's been "announced".
And if it is on AM4, i will be surprised, as that means Zen 3 APUs won't release until 2021, which will mean AM4 products will be released in 2021, which is beyond their claimed 2020 AM4 end-release. Not saying that'd be a "bad" thing, and they can do whatever they want, but they only stated AM4 will last till 2020, which since Zen2 APUs will release in 2020 on AM4, would be correct.
Next Zen is going to be an iteration of Zen.
Where is information on this? I can't find really any real information about Zen3 other then it's been "announced".
And if it is on AM4, i will be surprised, as that means Zen 3 APUs won't release until 2021, which will mean AM4 products will be released in 2021, which is beyond their claimed 2020 AM4 end-release. Not saying that'd be a "bad" thing, and they can do whatever they want, but they only stated AM4 will last till 2020, which since Zen2 APUs will release in 2020 on AM4, would be correct.
slicer
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#5710226 Posted on: 09/11/2019 07:09 PM
I am sure that Zen3 is similar step in performance as Zen+ was for Zen. So around +10% more performace compared to Zen2 (Ryzen3000) right now.
And definetly more mature platform. Thats why I am skipping this Ryzen3000 series and X570/B550 boarda all together and stick with my Zen1 Ryzen1600'd and B350.
There is no burning need to change anyway.
And DDR5 will not come with the Zen3, I am very sure of that. Maybe Zen4 or even Zen5.
I am sure that Zen3 is similar step in performance as Zen+ was for Zen. So around +10% more performace compared to Zen2 (Ryzen3000) right now.
And definetly more mature platform. Thats why I am skipping this Ryzen3000 series and X570/B550 boarda all together and stick with my Zen1 Ryzen1600'd and B350.
There is no burning need to change anyway.
And DDR5 will not come with the Zen3, I am very sure of that. Maybe Zen4 or even Zen5.
Evildead666
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#5710227 Posted on: 09/11/2019 07:11 PM
Where is information on this? I can't find really any real information about Zen3 other then it's been "announced".
And if it is on AM4, i will be surprised, as that means Zen 3 APUs won't release until 2021, which will mean AM4 products will be released in 2021, which is beyond their claimed 2020 AM4 end-release. Not saying that'd be a "bad" thing, and they can do whatever they want, but they only stated AM4 will last till 2020, which since Zen2 APUs will release in 2020 on AM4, would be correct.
I Think there will be one more AM4 to go yet, then AM5 might make its debut.
If it slips to 2021, then thats only a little slip. Good news for AM4 owners AM5 can debut the same year, with the same cores, at the same time, but on PCIe5 and DDR5. Thats only an IO chip change, even if PCIe5 happens that quick 
Where is information on this? I can't find really any real information about Zen3 other then it's been "announced".
And if it is on AM4, i will be surprised, as that means Zen 3 APUs won't release until 2021, which will mean AM4 products will be released in 2021, which is beyond their claimed 2020 AM4 end-release. Not saying that'd be a "bad" thing, and they can do whatever they want, but they only stated AM4 will last till 2020, which since Zen2 APUs will release in 2020 on AM4, would be correct.
I Think there will be one more AM4 to go yet, then AM5 might make its debut.
If it slips to 2021, then thats only a little slip. Good news for AM4 owners
AM5 can debut the same year, with the same cores, at the same time, but on PCIe5 and DDR5. Thats only an IO chip change, even if PCIe5 happens that quick
Denial
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#5710231 Posted on: 09/11/2019 07:19 PM
I'm 95% sure at one of the conferences Lisa Su specifically said Zen 3 was another major iteration to the architecture, that they can't afford to slow down with half measures anymore. It's obviously going 7nm EUV on cores, I'm not sure if the IO die process is changing or not though as they still have a contract with GF. There were rumors about 4 way SMT (I don't believe this) - I'd expect AVX512 to be supported this go around.
AMD really can't afford to sit around with Intel restructuring it's entire engineering division. Intel is going to start moving a lot of new designs down the pipe and it's already starting to show with things like foveros. AMD needs to be agile or they'll end up exactly where they were 5 years ago.
I'm 95% sure at one of the conferences Lisa Su specifically said Zen 3 was another major iteration to the architecture, that they can't afford to slow down with half measures anymore. It's obviously going 7nm EUV on cores, I'm not sure if the IO die process is changing or not though as they still have a contract with GF. There were rumors about 4 way SMT (I don't believe this) - I'd expect AVX512 to be supported this go around.
AMD really can't afford to sit around with Intel restructuring it's entire engineering division. Intel is going to start moving a lot of new designs down the pipe and it's already starting to show with things like foveros. AMD needs to be agile or they'll end up exactly where they were 5 years ago.
Mda400
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#5710235 Posted on: 09/11/2019 07:24 PM
I'm 95% sure at one of the conferences Lisa Su specifically said Zen 3 was another major iteration to the architecture, that they can't afford to slow down with half measures anymore. It's obviously going 7nm EUV on cores, I'm not sure if the IO die process is changing or not though as they still have a contract with GF. There were rumors about 4 way SMT (I don't believe this) - I'd expect AVX512 to be supported this go around.
AMD really can't afford to sit around with Intel restructuring it's entire engineering division. Intel is going to start moving a lot of new designs down the pipe and it's already starting to show with things like foveros. AMD needs to be agile or they'll end up exactly where they were 5 years ago.
When there's competition, we all win!
I'm 95% sure at one of the conferences Lisa Su specifically said Zen 3 was another major iteration to the architecture, that they can't afford to slow down with half measures anymore. It's obviously going 7nm EUV on cores, I'm not sure if the IO die process is changing or not though as they still have a contract with GF. There were rumors about 4 way SMT (I don't believe this) - I'd expect AVX512 to be supported this go around.
AMD really can't afford to sit around with Intel restructuring it's entire engineering division. Intel is going to start moving a lot of new designs down the pipe and it's already starting to show with things like foveros. AMD needs to be agile or they'll end up exactly where they were 5 years ago.
When there's competition, we all win!
Evildead666
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Posts: 1264
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#5710236 Posted on: 09/11/2019 07:27 PM
I'm 95% sure at one of the conferences Lisa Su specifically said Zen 3 was another major iteration to the architecture, that they can't afford to slow down with half measures anymore. It's obviously going 7nm EUV on cores, I'm not sure if the IO die process is changing or not though as they still have a contract with GF. There were rumors about 4 way SMT (I don't believe this) - I'd expect AVX512 to be supported this go around.
AMD really can't afford to sit around with Intel restructuring it's entire engineering division. Intel is going to start moving a lot of new designs down the pipe and it's already starting to show with things like foveros. AMD needs to be agile or they'll end up exactly where they were 5 years ago.
I believe SMT4 is possible.
There are limits to how much power a core takes, and how well fed it can be.
We can now happily feed an SMT2 chip quite well, Zen has shown that.
SMT4 would just keep one core alive for longer, but only one core, until more than 4 threads are needed.
So that one core can be the same power draw as currently one core, but do twice as much.
It might even take a bit more power than currently.
Like 1.3x power for 1.8x perf.
I'm 95% sure at one of the conferences Lisa Su specifically said Zen 3 was another major iteration to the architecture, that they can't afford to slow down with half measures anymore. It's obviously going 7nm EUV on cores, I'm not sure if the IO die process is changing or not though as they still have a contract with GF. There were rumors about 4 way SMT (I don't believe this) - I'd expect AVX512 to be supported this go around.
AMD really can't afford to sit around with Intel restructuring it's entire engineering division. Intel is going to start moving a lot of new designs down the pipe and it's already starting to show with things like foveros. AMD needs to be agile or they'll end up exactly where they were 5 years ago.
I believe SMT4 is possible.
There are limits to how much power a core takes, and how well fed it can be.
We can now happily feed an SMT2 chip quite well, Zen has shown that.
SMT4 would just keep one core alive for longer, but only one core, until more than 4 threads are needed.
So that one core can be the same power draw as currently one core, but do twice as much.
It might even take a bit more power than currently.
Like 1.3x power for 1.8x perf.
Denial
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Posts: 12471
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#5710239 Posted on: 09/11/2019 07:35 PM
I believe SMT4 is possible.
There are limits to how much power a core takes, and how well fed it can be.
We can now happily feed an SMT2 chip quiote well, Zen has shown that.
SMT4 would just keep one core alive for longer, but only one core, until more than 4 threads are needed.
So that one core can be the same power draw as currently one core, but do twice as much.
It might even take a bit more power than currently.
Like 1.3x power for 1.8x perf.
It's possible but it requires changes to the address generation units (they'd have to double them) and obviously L1/L2 cache. For these 8 core and more chips they are shipping it would significantly increase the die size and power for a very minimal performance increase in most general workloads. For IBM and Xeon Phi it made sense because those chips are working in an area where it's nearly always beneficial to have more threads but for general purpose processors I don't think it's worth the trade so I don't believe that rumor is true.
I believe SMT4 is possible.
There are limits to how much power a core takes, and how well fed it can be.
We can now happily feed an SMT2 chip quiote well, Zen has shown that.
SMT4 would just keep one core alive for longer, but only one core, until more than 4 threads are needed.
So that one core can be the same power draw as currently one core, but do twice as much.
It might even take a bit more power than currently.
Like 1.3x power for 1.8x perf.
It's possible but it requires changes to the address generation units (they'd have to double them) and obviously L1/L2 cache. For these 8 core and more chips they are shipping it would significantly increase the die size and power for a very minimal performance increase in most general workloads. For IBM and Xeon Phi it made sense because those chips are working in an area where it's nearly always beneficial to have more threads but for general purpose processors I don't think it's worth the trade so I don't believe that rumor is true.
Evildead666
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#5710245 Posted on: 09/11/2019 07:50 PM
More cores is more power.
You need more threads/core.
We can't magically make a core consume a lot less power, but we can be sure it is well fed, and well used.
It may not happen with AM5, but if AMD is shrude, they will have the Corporate chips pay for the consumer chip development.
Server chips pay for the Dev, and consumers reap the benefits a year or so later.
Win/Win.
And makes Intel sit up and join the parteee once again.
It's possible but it requires changes to the address generation units (they'd have to double them) and obviously L1/L2 cache. For these 8 core and more chips they are shipping it would significantly increase the die size and power for a very minimal performance increase in most general workloads. For IBM and Xeon Phi it made sense because those chips are working in an area where it's nearly always beneficial to have more threads but for general purpose processors I don't think it's worth the trade so I don't believe that rumor is true.
More cores is more power.
You need more threads/core.
We can't magically make a core consume a lot less power, but we can be sure it is well fed, and well used.
It may not happen with AM5, but if AMD is shrude, they will have the Corporate chips pay for the consumer chip development.
Server chips pay for the Dev, and consumers reap the benefits a year or so later.
Win/Win.
And makes Intel sit up and join the parteee once again.
spectatorx
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#5710250 Posted on: 09/11/2019 08:09 PM
I'm interested on more details on their plans for gpus than anything else. Are they going to release rx5800/5900 based on higher navi gpus? If yes then when? Are they going to ditch 5xxx naming scheme and jump straight to 6xxx or change naming again to something different? 5xx to vegaxx and to 5xxx naming scheme can be confusing to average Joe. I was aiming towards top navi (rx5800/5900xt or whatever they would name them) hoping for these cards to be decent performers at 4k in many games and high fps performers in 2560x1440 resolution but now i am confused and have no idea what to wait for and for how long. I'm not going to buy 5700xt because these are mid-range and i want to jump from ancient r9 380 straight to latest top card from amd. I could jump to intel's gpu but their discrete gpu release is far from now and this probably also will be just mid-range gpu. Do they abandon releasing navi gpus and 5700s are the only ones and now only rdna2? To be honest these roadmaps tell me nothing and confuse me even more.
I'm interested on more details on their plans for gpus than anything else. Are they going to release rx5800/5900 based on higher navi gpus? If yes then when? Are they going to ditch 5xxx naming scheme and jump straight to 6xxx or change naming again to something different? 5xx to vegaxx and to 5xxx naming scheme can be confusing to average Joe. I was aiming towards top navi (rx5800/5900xt or whatever they would name them) hoping for these cards to be decent performers at 4k in many games and high fps performers in 2560x1440 resolution but now i am confused and have no idea what to wait for and for how long. I'm not going to buy 5700xt because these are mid-range and i want to jump from ancient r9 380 straight to latest top card from amd. I could jump to intel's gpu but their discrete gpu release is far from now and this probably also will be just mid-range gpu. Do they abandon releasing navi gpus and 5700s are the only ones and now only rdna2? To be honest these roadmaps tell me nothing and confuse me even more.
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I really am curious if Zen 3 is going to be more of a Zen2+ then a whole new generation like Zen2 was.
It seems really quick for them to have a major architecture change, since Zen 3 is supposed to be released in 2020. Then again, i feel like Zen 3 will be DDR5, and maybe that'll be the major reason it's not considered Zen2+.