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Guru3D Rig of the Month - September 2019
AMD Navi spotted in MacOS Mojave
it took a bit of seeking, but entries of AMDs next-gen Navi has surfaced in the Mojave MacOS version 14.2 as website Tonymacx86 spotted. As mentioned it took a bit of seeking, as the entries are located in actual programming code.
A file that is called AMDRadeon6000HWServiceskext has "Navi" listed in several segments of the code. Not just that, four models have been spotted: Navi 16, Navi 12, Navi 10 and Navi 9. The number could be related to the number of computeunits.
If AMD continues to use 64 shaders per compute unit in Navi, it means that the smallest discrete Navi GPU has been limited to 576 shader units in an aim to replace the Radeon RX 540, the Radeon RX 550, the Radeon RX 560 and all related mobile GPUs. Navi 16 would get 1024 Shader processors. Videocardz mentions these are likely names for different products, not the names of the GPUs. The device ID for NAVi was listed as 0x73101002.
If added to the code, logic assumes a lucnh is pending this year similar to when Apple added Vega's code to MacOS Sierra, after which Vega was launched I think it was six months later. So who knows, Navi within six months?
AMD NAVI would see three video card models, $249 RX 3080 close to RTX 2070 - 12/06/2018 10:11 AM
Quite a bit of information leaked onto the web over the last day or so, whether or not that information is correct remains to be seen. However, more info surfaced and it entails the pending GPU launch...
AMD Navi based Graphics cards Might Arrive in August 2018 - 10/09/2017 02:10 PM
While Vega is barely out of the doors, AMD is already moving forward to NAVI. Graphics cards based on these 7nm fabbed GPUs would be released in August 2018 according to new information. ...
carnivore
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 2017-07-11
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 2017-07-11
#5629929 Posted on: 01/21/2019 05:13 PM
Good if it's true. nVidia should taste it's own medicine for blocking it's own drivers in systems with AMD drivers way back.
Good if it's true. nVidia should taste it's own medicine for blocking it's own drivers in systems with AMD drivers way back.
David3k
Member
Posts: 82
Joined: 2003-07-29
Member
Posts: 82
Joined: 2003-07-29
#5629933 Posted on: 01/21/2019 05:21 PM
Oh sure, let's forget all about how and why nvidia are, these days, stonewalled by Apple completely. Surely it has nothing to do with their past working history.
Let's also forget how, for a time, nvidia was the only addon graphics option for Apple. I wonder why that ended?
At any rate, if you install Windows on their hardware you're free to drop in an nvidia card and it will work, but if you are running the OS on a non-Apple hardware (hackintosh,) you're actually in breach of the end-user license agreement.
Bottom line is, it's Apple's platform; what they choose to support is up to them, not anyone else. It's a niche platform that's basically just a standard PC branded and coupled with a custom OS, so what exactly is the argument here?
Likely to be the only addin graphics card for the foreseeable future as Apple are engaging in anti-competitive practices and refusing to permit nvidia drivers to function.
Oh sure, let's forget all about how and why nvidia are, these days, stonewalled by Apple completely. Surely it has nothing to do with their past working history.
Let's also forget how, for a time, nvidia was the only addon graphics option for Apple. I wonder why that ended?
At any rate, if you install Windows on their hardware you're free to drop in an nvidia card and it will work, but if you are running the OS on a non-Apple hardware (hackintosh,) you're actually in breach of the end-user license agreement.
Bottom line is, it's Apple's platform; what they choose to support is up to them, not anyone else. It's a niche platform that's basically just a standard PC branded and coupled with a custom OS, so what exactly is the argument here?
chispy
Senior Member
Posts: 8758
Joined: 2006-10-29
Senior Member
Posts: 8758
Joined: 2006-10-29
#5629936 Posted on: 01/21/2019 05:26 PM
I sure hope so and AMD releases Navy soon as we definitely need more competition on the video card side of things for a healthy and competitive market.
I sure hope so and AMD releases Navy soon as we definitely need more competition on the video card side of things for a healthy and competitive market.
msotirov
Member
Posts: 48
Joined: 2017-08-28
Member
Posts: 48
Joined: 2017-08-28
#5629942 Posted on: 01/21/2019 05:34 PM
Useless on macOS where OpenGL and OpenCL are pretty much dead. No one cares about Metal, and Apple is stubborn about Vulkan.
Useless on macOS where OpenGL and OpenCL are pretty much dead. No one cares about Metal, and Apple is stubborn about Vulkan.
fantaskarsef
Senior Member
Posts: 10710
Joined: 2014-07-21
Senior Member
Posts: 10710
Joined: 2014-07-21
#5629947 Posted on: 01/21/2019 05:41 PM
I wonder how long they'll do this before they switch on their own, self designed GPU like they did with the CPUs.
I wonder how long they'll do this before they switch on their own, self designed GPU like they did with the CPUs.
schmidtbag
Senior Member
Posts: 4414
Joined: 2012-11-10
Senior Member
Posts: 4414
Joined: 2012-11-10
#5629954 Posted on: 01/21/2019 05:48 PM
To my understanding, Nvidia drivers are still permitted, but no new Apple products will come with Nvidia GPUs, and I'm not too sure if they bothered adding support for anything newer than Maxwell. So if you have a Mac that's a couple years old with an Nvidia GPU, you should still be able to get Mojave with functioning support. Nvidia hasn't abandoned their Mac customers.
Nvidia is tasting their own medicine except it has nothing to do with AMD. Both Nvidia and Apple are being stubborn over their petty feud. When you have 2 extremely egocentric companies butting heads like this, nobody wins.
Doesn't matter - there's MoltenVK.
Likely to be the only addin graphics card for the foreseeable future as Apple are engaging in anti-competitive practices and refusing to permit nvidia drivers to function.
To my understanding, Nvidia drivers are still permitted, but no new Apple products will come with Nvidia GPUs, and I'm not too sure if they bothered adding support for anything newer than Maxwell. So if you have a Mac that's a couple years old with an Nvidia GPU, you should still be able to get Mojave with functioning support. Nvidia hasn't abandoned their Mac customers.
Good if it's true. nVidia should taste it's own medicine for blocking it's own drivers in systems with AMD drivers way back.
Nvidia is tasting their own medicine except it has nothing to do with AMD. Both Nvidia and Apple are being stubborn over their petty feud. When you have 2 extremely egocentric companies butting heads like this, nobody wins.
Useless on macOS where OpenGL and OpenCL are pretty much dead. No one cares about Metal, and Apple is stubborn about Vulkan.
Doesn't matter - there's MoltenVK.
Kaarme
Senior Member
Posts: 1621
Joined: 2013-03-10
Senior Member
Posts: 1621
Joined: 2013-03-10
#5629958 Posted on: 01/21/2019 06:02 PM
I'm pretty sure they already have an equal amount of engineers and lawyers working on it. Just like happened with their mobile GPU designs. They just don't want to license anything. They want to steal the technology and then use the flaws in the American justice system to win the case.
I wonder how long they'll do this before they switch on their own, self designed GPU like they did with the CPUs.
I'm pretty sure they already have an equal amount of engineers and lawyers working on it. Just like happened with their mobile GPU designs. They just don't want to license anything. They want to steal the technology and then use the flaws in the American justice system to win the case.
tunejunky
Senior Member
Posts: 881
Joined: 2017-08-18
Senior Member
Posts: 881
Joined: 2017-08-18
#5629960 Posted on: 01/21/2019 06:05 PM
well boys (and the one or two gals), the floodgates are opening.
the Navi variants (guaranteed at least two in 1st launch, most likely 3) are being leaked by social media in Taiwan and China from 2nd and 3rd party suppliers and aib's.
i already mentioned the PS5 rumors (which gained steam over the last 48hrs) which isn't surprising as the console market basically paid for Navi development.
the more interesting aspect to me is how quietly everyone is taking Sony basically absorbing the HTPC market, as custom builds will not be as cost effective or as attractive. when you have an 8 core (with or without HT) cpu and dedicated 1440p gpu (on a SoC) you are achieving a lot of functionality.
depending on Sony for the software/interface may be an issue, and it remains to be seen how much they know they have a tiger by the tail.
well boys (and the one or two gals), the floodgates are opening.
the Navi variants (guaranteed at least two in 1st launch, most likely 3) are being leaked by social media in Taiwan and China from 2nd and 3rd party suppliers and aib's.
i already mentioned the PS5 rumors (which gained steam over the last 48hrs) which isn't surprising as the console market basically paid for Navi development.
the more interesting aspect to me is how quietly everyone is taking Sony basically absorbing the HTPC market, as custom builds will not be as cost effective or as attractive. when you have an 8 core (with or without HT) cpu and dedicated 1440p gpu (on a SoC) you are achieving a lot of functionality.
depending on Sony for the software/interface may be an issue, and it remains to be seen how much they know they have a tiger by the tail.
Astyanax
Senior Member
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2018-03-21
Senior Member
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2018-03-21
#5629961 Posted on: 01/21/2019 06:07 PM
Oh sure, let's forget all about how and why nvidia are, these days, stonewalled by Apple completely. Surely it has nothing to do with their past working history.
Let's also forget how, for a time, nvidia was the only addon graphics option for Apple. I wonder why that ended?
At any rate, if you install Windows on their hardware you're free to drop in an nvidia card and it will work, but if you are running the OS on a non-Apple hardware (hackintosh,) you're actually in breach of the end-user license agreement.
Bottom line is, it's Apple's platform; what they choose to support is up to them, not anyone else. It's a niche platform that's basically just a standard PC branded and coupled with a custom OS, so what exactly is the argument here?
The failed gpu's apple bought were implemented by apple, typical apple fanboy behavior is to forget that fact and blame the chip provider for the chip buyers implementation failure.
there was never any defects found in the G8x chips themselves and it was always down to brittle solder pads, as implemented by the likes of apple, dell and hp.
people like to forget the fact that ATI mobility based laptops had brittle 'bumps' too, just the market was so low at the time that it got barely any tech media traction.
http://www.ee.cityu.edu.hk/~ycchan/publications-ycchan/PeerReviewedJournals/PeerJournal-206.pdf
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=44126&start=20#p433375
To my understanding, Nvidia drivers are still permitted, but no new Apple products will come with Nvidia GPUs, and I'm not too sure if they bothered adding support for anything newer than Maxwell. So if you have a Mac that's a couple years old with an Nvidia GPU, you should still be able to get Mojave with functioning support. Nvidia hasn't abandoned their Mac customers.
No.
There is a management level decision that the OSX developers do not agree with at play here, Nvidia is shadow banned from providing drivers to Mojave.
Oh sure, let's forget all about how and why nvidia are, these days, stonewalled by Apple completely. Surely it has nothing to do with their past working history.
Let's also forget how, for a time, nvidia was the only addon graphics option for Apple. I wonder why that ended?
At any rate, if you install Windows on their hardware you're free to drop in an nvidia card and it will work, but if you are running the OS on a non-Apple hardware (hackintosh,) you're actually in breach of the end-user license agreement.
Bottom line is, it's Apple's platform; what they choose to support is up to them, not anyone else. It's a niche platform that's basically just a standard PC branded and coupled with a custom OS, so what exactly is the argument here?
The failed gpu's apple bought were implemented by apple, typical apple fanboy behavior is to forget that fact and blame the chip provider for the chip buyers implementation failure.
there was never any defects found in the G8x chips themselves and it was always down to brittle solder pads, as implemented by the likes of apple, dell and hp.
people like to forget the fact that ATI mobility based laptops had brittle 'bumps' too, just the market was so low at the time that it got barely any tech media traction.
http://www.ee.cityu.edu.hk/~ycchan/publications-ycchan/PeerReviewedJournals/PeerJournal-206.pdf
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=44126&start=20#p433375
To my understanding, Nvidia drivers are still permitted, but no new Apple products will come with Nvidia GPUs, and I'm not too sure if they bothered adding support for anything newer than Maxwell. So if you have a Mac that's a couple years old with an Nvidia GPU, you should still be able to get Mojave with functioning support. Nvidia hasn't abandoned their Mac customers.
No.
There is a management level decision that the OSX developers do not agree with at play here, Nvidia is shadow banned from providing drivers to Mojave.
FM57
Senior Member
Posts: 156
Joined: 2016-12-28
Senior Member
Posts: 156
Joined: 2016-12-28
#5629968 Posted on: 01/21/2019 06:36 PM
At any rate, if you install Windows on their hardware you're free to drop in an nvidia card and it will work, but if you are running the OS on a non-Apple hardware (hackintosh,) you're actually in breach of the end-user license agreement.
Isn't it possible to get eGPU with Nvidia inside ?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544
So it does not have to be an Hackintosh. It can be a true Mac in need of more power.
All is not black or white...
At any rate, if you install Windows on their hardware you're free to drop in an nvidia card and it will work, but if you are running the OS on a non-Apple hardware (hackintosh,) you're actually in breach of the end-user license agreement.
Isn't it possible to get eGPU with Nvidia inside ?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544
So it does not have to be an Hackintosh. It can be a true Mac in need of more power.
All is not black or white...
Wrinkly
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2015-03-25
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2015-03-25
#5629973 Posted on: 01/21/2019 06:58 PM
Nvidia never played well with others.
Likely to be the only addin graphics card for the foreseeable future as Apple are engaging in anti-competitive practices and refusing to permit nvidia drivers to function.
Nvidia never played well with others.
Exodite
Senior Member
Posts: 1906
Joined: 2006-09-28
Senior Member
Posts: 1906
Joined: 2006-09-28
#5629974 Posted on: 01/21/2019 06:58 PM
i already mentioned the PS5 rumors (which gained steam over the last 48hrs) which isn't surprising as the console market basically paid for Navi development.
the more interesting aspect to me is how quietly everyone is taking Sony basically absorbing the HTPC market, as custom builds will not be as cost effective or as attractive. when you have an 8 core (with or without HT) cpu and dedicated 1440p gpu (on a SoC) you are achieving a lot of functionality.
All I want from the PS5 is an UHD BD-player, I'll trust the rest of the specs to be satisfactory regardless.
You do bring up an excellent point though, it's going to be the software that cinches it. If Sony can commit to wide codec support and excellent media functionality from the start, ie. unlike the PS4, they likely have a winner on their hands. It's likely too much to ask but if we had better storage access/control as well I think the PS5 could easily replace most HTPCs out there, unfortunately and kind of direct system access tend to be off limits for the consoles.
i already mentioned the PS5 rumors (which gained steam over the last 48hrs) which isn't surprising as the console market basically paid for Navi development.
the more interesting aspect to me is how quietly everyone is taking Sony basically absorbing the HTPC market, as custom builds will not be as cost effective or as attractive. when you have an 8 core (with or without HT) cpu and dedicated 1440p gpu (on a SoC) you are achieving a lot of functionality.
All I want from the PS5 is an UHD BD-player, I'll trust the rest of the specs to be satisfactory regardless.
You do bring up an excellent point though, it's going to be the software that cinches it. If Sony can commit to wide codec support and excellent media functionality from the start, ie. unlike the PS4, they likely have a winner on their hands. It's likely too much to ask but if we had better storage access/control as well I think the PS5 could easily replace most HTPCs out there, unfortunately and kind of direct system access tend to be off limits for the consoles.
jura11
Senior Member
Posts: 2012
Joined: 2015-03-20
Senior Member
Posts: 2012
Joined: 2015-03-20
#5629975 Posted on: 01/21/2019 07:03 PM
That's not quite true, Nvidia is quite lazy with drivers releases as most of AMD GPU works OOB or Out of Box without any further modifications to kext or drivers
I have tried RTX 2080Ti on OSX which is still not supported, Pascal is supported over High Sierra I think as I only use High Sierra right now, almost every GPU from AMD is supported and you don't need to do kext modifications
Just recommendation please check Nvidia driver releases on OSX
Mojave and Nvidia drivers I just hope they will release new drivers for OSX as right now I'm stuck with 7mb RTX 2080Ti like in High Sierra or Mojave
Nvidia is not banned from any OSX just what I know they need to support Metal API and looks like Nvidia refusing to support this, older Kepler GPU are supported or work OOB in Mojave but there is no CUDA support with this I'm not sure
If you wish to use Pascal GPUs in OSX then I would suggest use High Sierra, Turing support I don't think we will see anytime soon or within 2-3 months but maybe I'm wrong
Nvidia and Apple have their own issues or rather problems in previous years when Nvidia screwed Apple
Apple ecosystem is closed and therefore releasing anything there it will be problematic and they fight with Nvidia with their own medicine
Hope this helps
Thanks, Jura
Likely to be the only addin graphics card for the foreseeable future as Apple are engaging in anti-competitive practices and refusing to permit nvidia drivers to function.
That's not quite true, Nvidia is quite lazy with drivers releases as most of AMD GPU works OOB or Out of Box without any further modifications to kext or drivers
I have tried RTX 2080Ti on OSX which is still not supported, Pascal is supported over High Sierra I think as I only use High Sierra right now, almost every GPU from AMD is supported and you don't need to do kext modifications
Just recommendation please check Nvidia driver releases on OSX
Mojave and Nvidia drivers I just hope they will release new drivers for OSX as right now I'm stuck with 7mb RTX 2080Ti like in High Sierra or Mojave
Nvidia is not banned from any OSX just what I know they need to support Metal API and looks like Nvidia refusing to support this, older Kepler GPU are supported or work OOB in Mojave but there is no CUDA support with this I'm not sure
If you wish to use Pascal GPUs in OSX then I would suggest use High Sierra, Turing support I don't think we will see anytime soon or within 2-3 months but maybe I'm wrong
Nvidia and Apple have their own issues or rather problems in previous years when Nvidia screwed Apple
Apple ecosystem is closed and therefore releasing anything there it will be problematic and they fight with Nvidia with their own medicine
Hope this helps
Thanks, Jura
waltc3
Senior Member
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Joined: 2014-07-22
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Posts: 1001
Joined: 2014-07-22
#5629978 Posted on: 01/21/2019 07:21 PM
That's what you get with Apple. It's to be expected. Any end user who does not wish to have Apple make his hardware choices for him had best eschew Apple, with all due haste. Apple doesn't care for nVidia--neither does Microsoft. How many remember that nVidia was chosen for the original xbox contract--and then, nVidia turned around and sued Microsoft for the privilege, and Microsoft paid them in a settlement, then said good-bye to nVidia for good? Can't say I blame them.
Likely to be the only addin graphics card for the foreseeable future as Apple are engaging in anti-competitive practices and refusing to permit nvidia drivers to function.
That's what you get with Apple. It's to be expected. Any end user who does not wish to have Apple make his hardware choices for him had best eschew Apple, with all due haste. Apple doesn't care for nVidia--neither does Microsoft. How many remember that nVidia was chosen for the original xbox contract--and then, nVidia turned around and sued Microsoft for the privilege, and Microsoft paid them in a settlement, then said good-bye to nVidia for good? Can't say I blame them.
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Likely to be the only addin graphics card for the foreseeable future as Apple are engaging in anti-competitive practices and refusing to permit nvidia drivers to function.