AMD Confirms It Will Launch Zen 3 This Year - We Haven't Seen the Best From AMD Just yet

#5811594 Posted on: 07/23/2020 07:36 PM

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This time around?

Every APU released has been then next generational naming with previous generation technology.

3000 series APUs are zen+, etc.

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be this way, because it is surely confusing, but i don't understand what you mean by "this time around"

#5811605 Posted on: 07/23/2020 08:07 PM

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Intel's problem is not the design of the architectures. They already have architectures much faster than the current ones, they just cannot use them to the full, because they were designed for the new manufacturing processes.

As 10nm did poorly and 7nm was also delayed, Intel found itself in a situation where the only chance is to continue to squeeze 14nm. When Intel has 10nm working properly or even 7nm, we will see good products from Intel again.

The first part of your message is wrong.
Intel do have problems with their architecture, in fact, their whole architecture is broken.
Intel is struggling with numerous, serious security vulnerabilities from which their whole brand is affected.
And before you say, that you have to be physically connected to the PC to exploit these vulnerabilities: no you don't anymore. This is required only for Spectre and some vatiants of Meltdown. But there is more vulnerabilities by now that can be exploited through backdoors and malware already. (MDS, Foreshadow, ZombieLoad etc. just to name a few)

AMD did manage to fix all the known vulnerabilities on hardware basis with their ZEN2 Architecture, and they were even able to make !full! software fixes for previous generations.
Intel did roll out !some! software fixes to !some! types of Spectre, yet Spectre is still a threat, not to mention the other dozens of vulnerabilities that Intel can't even fix !due to! the fact that their architecture design isn't capable of fixing those problems on hardware AND software level.

The only way for intel is to make a whole new design to roll out. But they aren't ready yet as you said. And this won't change for quite a while (years to come probably).

By then however, I think AMD will have much better improvements with their ZEN4 architecture and above.

If the rumors about the 8-core CCX, unified cache, 15% IPC improvements are true then yes AMD should beat Intel at everything at least until Intel can make a CPU on 10nm+. The 8-core CCX should make all 8-core or less CPU's similar to Intel monolithic cores and as such have similar latencies which is the main issue with the very high FPS gaming. All speculation and rumors right now so have to wait and see but I hope the rumors are true as we need AMD fighting it out with Intel for years to come.

In particular with my explanation from my quote from above, I think Intel's "new" architecture won't be able to beat AMD that easily.
Considering the fact that AMD actually was only affected by Meltdown/LVI vulnerabilities, which they managed to fully fix, Intel's new architecture should aim to fix way more vulnerabilities than AMD ever had to, while many of these are affecting performance.

If say, Intel were able to fix it with current generation, then you could expect - round about - at the very least 10-15% performance loss compared to AMD's ZEN2
(that's just my personal guess, considering the way how the vulnerability like Spectre and Meltdown actually work).
So at some points, Intel manages a better score in single core performance mode because they have so many open doors to insecurely access the CPU workloads, which is not good but a big disaster.
Also on long term usage, intel currently has much higher TDP, which you should also consider as an issue, because intel is not just more expensive to buy, they're also more expensive to maintain over time.

#5811611 Posted on: 07/23/2020 08:13 PM

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Fair enough, I wasn't very clear on that:
This isn't the first or even the second time people have questioned if Zen3 will make it to socket AM4, hence the first sentence of the article saying "fifth time this year confirming that Zen3 is launching this year". So, my point was saying that the reason this time people are questioning if Zen3 will be available is because AMD is releasing Zen2 products on the 4000 series, which is confusing people who don't know that APUs and mobile CPUs "skip a generation".
Does that make more sense?
So if AMD's product naming wasn't so confusing, they wouldn't have to yet again reassure people that yes, Zen3 is being released this year on AM4 and that the 4000 series isn't going to be a wholly Zen2 rebrand.

#5811613 Posted on: 07/23/2020 08:14 PM

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Here's a good example of how increased parallelization with APIs like DX12/Vulkan makes single threaded and low latency performance less important. The 3900x is actually ahead of the 10900K here:



No it's not when both are overclocked
In this test 10900k is nerfed to the max....
Try 10900k @ 5300mhz +, 5000mhz cache and 4400mhz memory.

Nice try, but try harder next time

#5811629 Posted on: 07/23/2020 08:43 PM

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No it's not when both are overclocked
In this test 10900k is nerfed to the max....
Try 10900k @ 5300mhz +, 5000mhz cache and 4400mhz memory.

Nice try, but try harder next time

While you're correct that a tweaked 10900K would beat the 3900x, the context of my point still stands. 3900x with partitioned L3 cache, off die memory controller, chiplet based architecture and lower clock speed than the 10900K with its monolithic architecture, integrated memory controller and unified L3 still managed to edge what is currently the fastest stock gaming CPU.

This is thanks to the huge L3 cache of the 3900x, combined with the Decima engine being able to render across multiple threads.