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AMD APU Display Architecture to remain VEGA, phase out in 2022, mention of Rembrandt
It is still based on a rumor, but with AMD APUs you all know there is an IGP installed, an integrated GPU if that makes it more understandable. Current, and near-future lines of APUs will still be based on VEGA (RDNA) micro architecure, and albeit NAVI has made a fashionable introduction for desktop, it seems that NAVI (RDNA2)will not reach AMD APUs before 2020.
As stated this is a rumor, one that comes from ExPreview. The Vega architecture would reach into Cézanne APUs that are expected to be released in 2021. And yeah, if you missed the news on it, Cézanne are APUs that will be based on ZEN3. In the article the Chinese website also makes mention of the fact that TSMC's 7nm process would still be used for this generation. And here's when we crank up the gossip up a notch, after Cézanne there's Rembrandt, these would be based on a TSMC's 6nm node and DDR5 DRAM memory. Here the APUs would switch towards the next, or second-generation RDNA architecture. It is also the timeframe where USB4 and PCI 4.0 would see its introduction into the range.
AMD would also plan a low voltage processor series (Van Gogh) at giving or take 9 watts to take on Intel's Y-series. The Twitterer Komachi Ensaka has also posted an overview of what he expects from the next few years, you can see that listed below. These self-made plots however are based on stuff noticed and expected, and as such hold no validity as to what the final outcome is going to be, ergo I can only label them as rumors until further notice.
7.38 GHz AMD APU on MSI FM2-A85XA-G65 - 10/09/2012 11:55 AM
MSI announced that their brand new FM2-A85XA-G65 has just set a stunning new world-record CPU speed for AMD's new A10 APUs. Featuring MSI's new DigitALL power design with Military Class III componen...
MSI E350IA-E45 - AMD APU Fusion review - 03/21/2011 12:41 PM
We peek at the cutest mITX motherboard from MSI today, have a look at some of its performance on the CPU and GPU side of things but most of all, we'll discuss features as what these products bring to ...
CPC_RedDawn
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Senior Member
Posts: 9392
Joined: 2008-01-06
#5792838 Posted on: 05/27/2020 01:08 PM
Could this be a license deal with Sony and/or Microsoft? That the RDNA APU design is exclusive to the consoles and can't be used within desktop APU's? Or do I have my tin foil hat on?
Regardless, it costs a lot of time, money and resources to implement a new architecture such as RDNA into an APU design and these chips need to be around the sub £150 mark. Like others have said, majority of these will be inside a laptop, which for 90%+ users is basic tasks like video encoding, hw acceleration in browsers, and maybe casual gaming.
Why change something that works, and is currently dominating in its market. AMD obviously has a roadmap like every other company, and they obviously see more potential within the VEGA design when used in these parts. Not only that it should help keep prices low and profits high.
Could this be a license deal with Sony and/or Microsoft? That the RDNA APU design is exclusive to the consoles and can't be used within desktop APU's? Or do I have my tin foil hat on?
Regardless, it costs a lot of time, money and resources to implement a new architecture such as RDNA into an APU design and these chips need to be around the sub £150 mark. Like others have said, majority of these will be inside a laptop, which for 90%+ users is basic tasks like video encoding, hw acceleration in browsers, and maybe casual gaming.
Why change something that works, and is currently dominating in its market. AMD obviously has a roadmap like every other company, and they obviously see more potential within the VEGA design when used in these parts. Not only that it should help keep prices low and profits high.
rl66
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Joined: 2007-05-31
Senior Member
Posts: 3433
Joined: 2007-05-31
#5792840 Posted on: 05/27/2020 01:14 PM
All the actual are still GCN and work quite good... (production cost...)
APU with vega work really fine for their price, there is no equivalent in Intel line (even if they are way better than before APU's launch).
For 99 Euro you have a modern quad core and a GPU part that permit a lot of things on the actual AMD line.
I don't get the point of having RDNA in an APU if it raise the price over 200 Euro even more when AMD APU are limited to X8 on the PCIe x16 of the motherboard because of having GPU inside.
If you need more then get a discrete GPU with a CPU.
It's all the weirder when you keep in mind that AMD developed the APUs for the next gen consoles a while ago. They most certainly won't be based on any GCN anymore.
All the actual are still GCN and work quite good... (production cost...)
APU with vega work really fine for their price, there is no equivalent in Intel line (even if they are way better than before APU's launch).
For 99 Euro you have a modern quad core and a GPU part that permit a lot of things on the actual AMD line.
I don't get the point of having RDNA in an APU if it raise the price over 200 Euro even more when AMD APU are limited to X8 on the PCIe x16 of the motherboard because of having GPU inside.
If you need more then get a discrete GPU with a CPU.
rl66
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Posts: 3433
Joined: 2007-05-31
Senior Member
Posts: 3433
Joined: 2007-05-31
#5792842 Posted on: 05/27/2020 01:19 PM
Nope, you have to consider those APU as part of whole system, if core and graphic part are more or less the same as PC, everything else is different (exemple: memory management)
Could this be a license deal with Sony and/or Microsoft? That the RDNA APU design is exclusive to the consoles and can't be used within desktop APU's? Or do I have my tin foil hat on? :p
Nope, you have to consider those APU as part of whole system, if core and graphic part are more or less the same as PC, everything else is different (exemple: memory management)
Fox2232
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Posts: 11809
Joined: 2012-07-20
#5792858 Posted on: 05/27/2020 02:13 PM
On top of that I am pretty sure that if anyone approached AMD with deal to make them semi-custom APU, they would do it. Like they did for that Subor Z.
It is likely because they see no extra market share gain from integrating it.
Most of people can't even begin to care about generational differences in intel's iGPUs. If they did, maybe AMD would see reason to show that they deliver newest and greatest they can.
Ryzen 4700/4800 U/H are particularly nice things to get into mobile workstation with 8C/16T + 7 Vega CUs.
If they paired 6C/12T with let's say 20 Vega CUs or RDNA/2 equivalent, it would be really nice gaming APU. (HBM2 on interposer with APU.)
Question is: Is there good market for ultra-portable, Reasonably powerful gaming laptop?
Bold part is where the issue comes from. iGPU needs Bandwidth to its memory, same way as dGPU.
With DDR4 that's being put into most laptops (slow even while faster are available at similar price), really powerful iGPUs are not doable.
AMD's wait for DDR5 mass production is likely reason here.
On other hand, Every time I see 2033MHz DDR4 instead of 2666/2933MHz or when I see just single stick present in new product, I am really sad.
This trend continues for very long time. And it sometimes happens even to intel's laptops.
I honestly think that AMD and intel should give boot time warning when CPU operates with single stick.
Then even uneducated customer may start to feel that he has been robbed of something.
Nope, you have to consider those APU as part of whole system, if core and graphic part are more or less the same as PC, everything else is different (exemple: memory management)
On top of that I am pretty sure that if anyone approached AMD with deal to make them semi-custom APU, they would do it. Like they did for that Subor Z.
It is likely because they see no extra market share gain from integrating it.
Most of people can't even begin to care about generational differences in intel's iGPUs. If they did, maybe AMD would see reason to show that they deliver newest and greatest they can.
Ryzen 4700/4800 U/H are particularly nice things to get into mobile workstation with 8C/16T + 7 Vega CUs.
If they paired 6C/12T with let's say 20 Vega CUs or RDNA/2 equivalent, it would be really nice gaming APU. (HBM2 on interposer with APU.)
Question is: Is there good market for ultra-portable, Reasonably powerful gaming laptop?
Bold part is where the issue comes from. iGPU needs Bandwidth to its memory, same way as dGPU.
With DDR4 that's being put into most laptops (slow even while faster are available at similar price), really powerful iGPUs are not doable.
AMD's wait for DDR5 mass production is likely reason here.
On other hand, Every time I see 2033MHz DDR4 instead of 2666/2933MHz or when I see just single stick present in new product, I am really sad.
This trend continues for very long time. And it sometimes happens even to intel's laptops.
I honestly think that AMD and intel should give boot time warning when CPU operates with single stick.
Then even uneducated customer may start to feel that he has been robbed of something.
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Inconceivable if true. I actually hope Intel's Xe iGPUs will leave AMD's ancient Vega based offerings to eat the dust. Sometimes bitter medicine is what people need to move forward.
It's all the weirder when you keep in mind that AMD developed the APUs for the next gen consoles a while ago. They most certainly won't be based on any GCN anymore. So, AMD has already basically done the work, but still refuses to let go of GCN in their own products.
We do do not know how much effort needs to have navi in the APU.
This is not `ancient vega` i think is sort of revised vega and also they could probably just increase the gpu unit count a bit.
Don't forget those are 100-150$ products.