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Posted by: on: 09/02/2019 11:16 AM [
14 comment(s) ]
High-performance NVMe SSDs tend to run hot. Ergo you have seen the manufacturers offer solutions with heatsinks, incl motherboard manufacturers making that even easier for you. Team Group takes it to the next level, as they are fitting the Cardea NVMe SSD with a heatsink holding liquid. That's right, that is passive liquid cooling for you.
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MegaFalloutFan
Senior Member
Posts: 615
Senior Member
Posts: 615
Posted on: 09/02/2019 03:21 PM
High-performance NVMe SSDs tend to run hot. Ergo you have seen the manufacturers offer solutions with heatsinks, incl motherboard manufacturers making that even easier for you. Team Group takes it to ...
Review: TeamGroup T-Force Liquid Cooled NVMe SSD
Hello,
I been reading that all NAND Controller manufacturers optimized their firmware to detect PCmark, so when it runs its test the files it creates always stay in the ram portion and then SLC cache without flushing it, basically thats why these benchmark is useless it doesn't represent real value, and by just looking at your score table, all the SSDs are going head to head and have almost identical score.
Its like GPU vendors did the same for 3d benchmarks long time ago, now its NAND time to do the same.
BTW, I also found out that this SMI controllers like SMI SM2262EN etc are "cheating", since most benchmarks they create relatively small files, so controller keeps the files as long as possible in the SLC cache, so benchmark scores look great but in real world scenario when you use bunch of programs it doesn't really help.
High-performance NVMe SSDs tend to run hot. Ergo you have seen the manufacturers offer solutions with heatsinks, incl motherboard manufacturers making that even easier for you. Team Group takes it to ...
Review: TeamGroup T-Force Liquid Cooled NVMe SSD
Hello,
I been reading that all NAND Controller manufacturers optimized their firmware to detect PCmark, so when it runs its test the files it creates always stay in the ram portion and then SLC cache without flushing it, basically thats why these benchmark is useless it doesn't represent real value, and by just looking at your score table, all the SSDs are going head to head and have almost identical score.
Its like GPU vendors did the same for 3d benchmarks long time ago, now its NAND time to do the same.
BTW, I also found out that this SMI controllers like SMI SM2262EN etc are "cheating", since most benchmarks they create relatively small files, so controller keeps the files as long as possible in the SLC cache, so benchmark scores look great but in real world scenario when you use bunch of programs it doesn't really help.
BLEH!
Senior Member
Posts: 5871
Senior Member
Posts: 5871
Posted on: 09/02/2019 03:26 PM
Given how hot these things get/how performance degrades with temperature/time, I'd not be surprised if it makes a massive difference. Yeah, 2 GB/s vs 4 GB/s is still stupid compared to even SATA SSDs, but in some applications, that performance matters.
I am dubitative about the use of WC for that thing...
Given how hot these things get/how performance degrades with temperature/time, I'd not be surprised if it makes a massive difference. Yeah, 2 GB/s vs 4 GB/s is still stupid compared to even SATA SSDs, but in some applications, that performance matters.
kakiharaFRS
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Senior Member
Posts: 145
Posted on: 09/02/2019 04:46 PM
Hello,
I been reading that all NAND Controller manufacturers optimized their firmware to detect PCmark
just like car manufacturers for emissions or less well known euroncap (security can go from safe to deadly if you crash at higher speed than euroncap tests)
more on topic I bought a supposedly copper heatsink you stick on your nvme drive from aliexpress
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H1ec1be81ac5d45248433c6135d8ece57e/New-NVME-NGFF-M-2-Heatsink-2280-SSD-Metal-Sheet-Thermal-Conductivity-Silicone-Wafer-Cooling-Fan.jpg-q50.jpg
and my 970pro (copying a 100Gb file) went from 71°C to 61° or less so I gained around 10°C from a 3$ heatsink not bad, that said I don't think it's that much better than the "plates" recent motherboards like the X570 offer, if you don't have one of those integrated cooling, a 3$ cooler will do something for you
(I shouldn't have to say that but on chinese shops don't buy the ultra cheap stuff it's always garbage, bought 2$ blue light glasses they blocked nothing bought 10$ blue light glasses they block 99%)
another comment I have to make, watch your ssd placement, most motherboards have them below the GPU, very bad idea as both generate heat, I actually moved my gpu in a lower slot to have the upper nvme clear (in the recommended placement the same ssd was often at 90°C)
Hello,
I been reading that all NAND Controller manufacturers optimized their firmware to detect PCmark
just like car manufacturers for emissions or less well known euroncap (security can go from safe to deadly if you crash at higher speed than euroncap tests)
more on topic I bought a supposedly copper heatsink you stick on your nvme drive from aliexpress
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H1ec1be81ac5d45248433c6135d8ece57e/New-NVME-NGFF-M-2-Heatsink-2280-SSD-Metal-Sheet-Thermal-Conductivity-Silicone-Wafer-Cooling-Fan.jpg-q50.jpg
and my 970pro (copying a 100Gb file) went from 71°C to 61° or less so I gained around 10°C from a 3$ heatsink not bad, that said I don't think it's that much better than the "plates" recent motherboards like the X570 offer, if you don't have one of those integrated cooling, a 3$ cooler will do something for you
(I shouldn't have to say that but on chinese shops don't buy the ultra cheap stuff it's always garbage, bought 2$ blue light glasses they blocked nothing bought 10$ blue light glasses they block 99%)
another comment I have to make, watch your ssd placement, most motherboards have them below the GPU, very bad idea as both generate heat, I actually moved my gpu in a lower slot to have the upper nvme clear (in the recommended placement the same ssd was often at 90°C)
TLD LARS
Senior Member
Posts: 107
Senior Member
Posts: 107
Posted on: 09/02/2019 05:06 PM
As the article also says, the water only works as a buffer to smooth out temperature spikes.
Lets guess 5-10 minuttes full load could overheat the SSD, it will then take around the same idle time for the temperature to fall down again, because the water will then keep the idling SSD warm, instead of cooling it.
A solid block of aluminium would also smooth out the temperature in the same way, but the aluminium top would not insulate the heat as the plexi top does, and a solid block would cost less to make.
I am willing to bet on that if you remove the plexi top, the drive would run cooler if full load is longer time then 1 hour.
I see this as, for looks only, personally i would not pay ekstra for it.
Given how hot these things get/how performance degrades with temperature/time, I'd not be surprised if it makes a massive difference. Yeah, 2 GB/s vs 4 GB/s is still stupid compared to even SATA SSDs, but in some applications, that performance matters.
As the article also says, the water only works as a buffer to smooth out temperature spikes.
Lets guess 5-10 minuttes full load could overheat the SSD, it will then take around the same idle time for the temperature to fall down again, because the water will then keep the idling SSD warm, instead of cooling it.
A solid block of aluminium would also smooth out the temperature in the same way, but the aluminium top would not insulate the heat as the plexi top does, and a solid block would cost less to make.
I am willing to bet on that if you remove the plexi top, the drive would run cooler if full load is longer time then 1 hour.
I see this as, for looks only, personally i would not pay ekstra for it.
MBTP
Senior Member
Posts: 118
Senior Member
Posts: 118
Posted on: 09/02/2019 05:09 PM
SEXY
SEXY
anticupidon
Senior Member
Posts: 3882
Senior Member
Posts: 3882
Posted on: 09/02/2019 05:20 PM
Team Group, the ones who make the data...flow.
Pardon the pun, that's the best I've came up with
Team Group, the ones who make the data...flow.
Pardon the pun, that's the best I've came up with
Robbo9999
Senior Member
Posts: 1301
Senior Member
Posts: 1301
Posted on: 09/02/2019 06:51 PM
I don't think you need this liquid cooled nonsense, I've got a 1TB Phison E12 Toshiba NAND drive (Sabrent Rocket 1TB), which is essentially the same as this one that's been reviewed in terms of the silicon and controller, and I just hammered mine with Crystal Disk Mark on the largest file size that you can choose (32GB - so the test takes a long time, 5-10mins I think but didn't time it) and the max temperature it reached was only 60 degC (24 degC room temperature) - and this is without any kind of heatsink on it, and of course no water cooling! I think I've got good air flow in my case though with x2 Noctua case exhaust fans (120mm & 140mm fans) in that area and a Noctua NH-D14 CPU cooler located directly above my NVMe drive, so there's bound to be quite a bit of air flow in that area. I just don't think you need water cooling on an NVMe drive - stick a finned metal heatsink on it instead and ensure you've got reasonable airflow is all you need in my opinion, and if you've got really good airflow you don't even need any kind of heatsink on them. I like the "geeky gadget" side of this water cooled NVMe drive, but the complete lack of practical necessity of it makes it unreasonable & unattractive to me.
I enjoyed reading the article though, and it was worthy of a review, it's all interesting stuff.
I don't think you need this liquid cooled nonsense, I've got a 1TB Phison E12 Toshiba NAND drive (Sabrent Rocket 1TB), which is essentially the same as this one that's been reviewed in terms of the silicon and controller, and I just hammered mine with Crystal Disk Mark on the largest file size that you can choose (32GB - so the test takes a long time, 5-10mins I think but didn't time it) and the max temperature it reached was only 60 degC (24 degC room temperature) - and this is without any kind of heatsink on it, and of course no water cooling! I think I've got good air flow in my case though with x2 Noctua case exhaust fans (120mm & 140mm fans) in that area and a Noctua NH-D14 CPU cooler located directly above my NVMe drive, so there's bound to be quite a bit of air flow in that area. I just don't think you need water cooling on an NVMe drive - stick a finned metal heatsink on it instead and ensure you've got reasonable airflow is all you need in my opinion, and if you've got really good airflow you don't even need any kind of heatsink on them. I like the "geeky gadget" side of this water cooled NVMe drive, but the complete lack of practical necessity of it makes it unreasonable & unattractive to me.
I enjoyed reading the article though, and it was worthy of a review, it's all interesting stuff.
Clanger
Senior Member
Posts: 193
Senior Member
Posts: 193
Posted on: 09/02/2019 06:53 PM
dont call me Flo
Team Group, the ones who make the data...flow.
dont call me Flo
stereoman
Senior Member
Posts: 738
Senior Member
Posts: 738
Posted on: 09/02/2019 10:47 PM
Got me excited for a minute was thinking I could add this thing into my loop then I read it's standalone without a heatsink as well o_O
Got me excited for a minute was thinking I could add this thing into my loop then I read it's standalone without a heatsink as well o_O
Mufflore
Senior Member
Posts: 11251
Senior Member
Posts: 11251
Posted on: 09/02/2019 11:40 PM
I'd be worried about how long it will take for the water level to more or less empty and the consequences.
I bet it isnt warranted for use without water and if there is a log kept of the temps they can "prove" it happened.
edit, forgot to add
It must be removed to refill water.
I'd be worried about how long it will take for the water level to more or less empty and the consequences.
I bet it isnt warranted for use without water and if there is a log kept of the temps they can "prove" it happened.
edit, forgot to add
It must be removed to refill water.
fantaskarsef
Senior Member
Posts: 10628
Senior Member
Posts: 10628
Posted on: 09/03/2019 11:06 AM
And there I thought they'd have put a connection to watercooling on it. Instead they just put a little water body on it? That's... lacking to the idea of it all, imho.
Also I can't imagine this being as effective as it should, a vapor chamber like from GPUs could be helpful, or a proper connector set to a custom loop.
And there I thought they'd have put a connection to watercooling on it. Instead they just put a little water body on it? That's... lacking to the idea of it all, imho.
Also I can't imagine this being as effective as it should, a vapor chamber like from GPUs could be helpful, or a proper connector set to a custom loop.
Robbo9999
Senior Member
Posts: 1301
Senior Member
Posts: 1301
Posted on: 09/03/2019 04:20 PM
I'd be worried about how long it will take for the water level to more or less empty and the consequences.
I bet it isnt warranted for use without water and if there is a log kept of the temps they can "prove" it happened.
edit, forgot to add
It must be removed to refill water.
More arguments for just sticking a metal heatsink on your NVMe drive rather than "water cooled"!
I'd be worried about how long it will take for the water level to more or less empty and the consequences.
I bet it isnt warranted for use without water and if there is a log kept of the temps they can "prove" it happened.
edit, forgot to add
It must be removed to refill water.
More arguments for just sticking a metal heatsink on your NVMe drive rather than "water cooled"!
Mufflore
Senior Member
Posts: 11251
Senior Member
Posts: 11251
Posted on: 09/03/2019 04:55 PM
Exactly.
More arguments for just sticking a metal heatsink on your NVMe drive rather than "water cooled"!
Exactly.
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I am dubitative about the use of WC for that thing...