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Nvidia Turing GeForce 2080 (Ti) architecture review
Posted by: on: 09/14/2018 03:00 PM [
130 comment(s) ]
It is almost time before we can present you our full review of the GeForce RTX series graphics cards. But first we'll be taking an architectural deep dive into the Turing graphics processors, and of course, we can share with you all specifications, you know the nitty gritty stuff.
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Fox2232
Senior Member
Posts: 8803
Senior Member
Posts: 8803
Posted on: 09/14/2018 03:39 PM
DLSS =
- Take angle under which 2 edges intersect
- take color information at edge
- load resulting pixel values from database
Variable rate shading =
- 1/2 precision
- 1/4 precision
- 1/8th precision
- and lovely 1/16th precision
This for sure boosts performance. Gamers will have mandatory camera tracking their eyes...
TSS =
- Bake in results into texture on the fly
- use old information to skip actual work
- update baked in texture from time to time (or at rate you feel comfortable with)
- probably would not be as bad as it seems if we had higher than 16xAF
To sum it up: New features can be paraphrased as "Way to cheap out IQ for performance gain."
Maybe good for 8K, somewhat OK for 4K. But hit to per pixel quality on 1440p will be unpleasant. On 1080p unacceptable.
DLSS =
- Take angle under which 2 edges intersect
- take color information at edge
- load resulting pixel values from database
Variable rate shading =
- 1/2 precision
- 1/4 precision
- 1/8th precision
- and lovely 1/16th precision
This for sure boosts performance. Gamers will have mandatory camera tracking their eyes...
TSS =
- Bake in results into texture on the fly
- use old information to skip actual work
- update baked in texture from time to time (or at rate you feel comfortable with)
- probably would not be as bad as it seems if we had higher than 16xAF
To sum it up: New features can be paraphrased as "Way to cheap out IQ for performance gain."
Maybe good for 8K, somewhat OK for 4K. But hit to per pixel quality on 1440p will be unpleasant. On 1080p unacceptable.
SniperX
Member
Posts: 58
Member
Posts: 58
Posted on: 09/14/2018 03:40 PM
Same here, Duke all the way. Regarding the architecture, it's clear where the gaps are that will be filled by the 2080+ and the Titan X (looks like there won't be a 2070 Ti). Anticipation for the reviews at like at 11.
Same here, Duke all the way. Regarding the architecture, it's clear where the gaps are that will be filled by the 2080+ and the Titan X (looks like there won't be a 2070 Ti). Anticipation for the reviews at like at 11.
-Tj-
Senior Member
Posts: 16125
Senior Member
Posts: 16125
Posted on: 09/14/2018 03:45 PM
Wow this 2080rtx is crippled like shit with tensor cores compared to TI variant nvm 2070..
Wow this 2080rtx is crippled like shit with tensor cores compared to TI variant nvm 2070..
MK80
Member
Posts: 80
Member
Posts: 80
Posted on: 09/14/2018 03:58 PM
OC/2200 Ghz o_O nice
OC/2200 Ghz o_O nice
Robbo9999
Senior Member
Posts: 1219
Senior Member
Posts: 1219
Posted on: 09/14/2018 04:20 PM
Yeah, comparitively small gaps between 2070 up to 2080, and then 2080ti comes along & massively increases the gap in specs.
I like the look of the Duke in comparison with the other MSI card, like someone already mentioned, I also like the NVidia Founders aesthetic. Looking forward to the reviews, and will read up on the associated tech of the architecture a bit more once the card reviews are out, I understand/know some of it, but not all.
Wow this 2080rtx is crippled like crap with tensor cores compared to TI variant nvm 2070..
Yeah, comparitively small gaps between 2070 up to 2080, and then 2080ti comes along & massively increases the gap in specs.
I like the look of the Duke in comparison with the other MSI card, like someone already mentioned, I also like the NVidia Founders aesthetic. Looking forward to the reviews, and will read up on the associated tech of the architecture a bit more once the card reviews are out, I understand/know some of it, but not all.
Monchis
Senior Member
Posts: 1300
Senior Member
Posts: 1300
Posted on: 09/14/2018 04:27 PM
The dlss comparison shot is really tiny.
The dlss comparison shot is really tiny.
Kaarme
Senior Member
Posts: 1468
Senior Member
Posts: 1468
Posted on: 09/14/2018 04:30 PM
At least this way 2070 won't be made using second-rate chips that weren't good enough for 2080.
At least this way 2070 won't be made using second-rate chips that weren't good enough for 2080.
scoter man1
Senior Member
Posts: 4694
Senior Member
Posts: 4694
Posted on: 09/14/2018 04:36 PM
C'mon HH, show us the numbers =D
C'mon HH, show us the numbers =D
Agent-A01
Senior Member
Posts: 11335
Senior Member
Posts: 11335
Posted on: 09/14/2018 04:37 PM
@Hilbert Hagedoorn
Thanks for the article.
Can you post the full photo of DLSS comparison?
Also can you comment on this
"Another important change with NVLink SLI is that now each GPU can access the other's memory in a cache-coherent way, which lets them combine framebuffer sizes- something that was not possible with SLI before. The underlying reason is that the old SLI link was used to only transfer the final rendered frames to the master GPU, which would then combine them with its own frame data and then output the combined image on the monitor. In framebuffer-combined mode, each GPU will automatically route memory requests to the correct card no matter which GPU is asking for which chunk of memory."
You said that RTX cannot share memory.
Is this a software limitation where shared memory-access is limited to 'prosumer' cards?
@Hilbert Hagedoorn
Thanks for the article.
Can you post the full photo of DLSS comparison?
Also can you comment on this
"Another important change with NVLink SLI is that now each GPU can access the other's memory in a cache-coherent way, which lets them combine framebuffer sizes- something that was not possible with SLI before. The underlying reason is that the old SLI link was used to only transfer the final rendered frames to the master GPU, which would then combine them with its own frame data and then output the combined image on the monitor. In framebuffer-combined mode, each GPU will automatically route memory requests to the correct card no matter which GPU is asking for which chunk of memory."
You said that RTX cannot share memory.
Is this a software limitation where shared memory-access is limited to 'prosumer' cards?
Fox2232
Senior Member
Posts: 8803
Senior Member
Posts: 8803
Posted on: 09/14/2018 04:44 PM
@Hilbert Hagedoorn
Thanks for the article.
Can you post the full photo of DLSS comparison?
Also can you comment on this
"Another important change with NVLink SLI is that now each GPU can access the other's memory in a cache-coherent way, which lets them combine framebuffer sizes- something that was not possible with SLI before. The underlying reason is that the old SLI link was used to only transfer the final rendered frames to the master GPU, which would then combine them with its own frame data and then output the combined image on the monitor. In framebuffer-combined mode, each GPU will automatically route memory requests to the correct card no matter which GPU is asking for which chunk of memory."
You said that RTX cannot share memory.
Is this a software limitation where shared memory-access is limited to 'prosumer' cards?
It does not matter for gaming. Sharing even 1GB of VRAM via 100GB/s available for 2080Ti will add 10ms to rendering time (ignoring actual latency of random accesses themselves).
You would be better off paying extra 1GB of VRAM on each card and paying for additional 32bit on IMC for that 1GB.
@Hilbert Hagedoorn
Thanks for the article.
Can you post the full photo of DLSS comparison?
Also can you comment on this
"Another important change with NVLink SLI is that now each GPU can access the other's memory in a cache-coherent way, which lets them combine framebuffer sizes- something that was not possible with SLI before. The underlying reason is that the old SLI link was used to only transfer the final rendered frames to the master GPU, which would then combine them with its own frame data and then output the combined image on the monitor. In framebuffer-combined mode, each GPU will automatically route memory requests to the correct card no matter which GPU is asking for which chunk of memory."
You said that RTX cannot share memory.
Is this a software limitation where shared memory-access is limited to 'prosumer' cards?
It does not matter for gaming. Sharing even 1GB of VRAM via 100GB/s available for 2080Ti will add 10ms to rendering time (ignoring actual latency of random accesses themselves).
You would be better off paying extra 1GB of VRAM on each card and paying for additional 32bit on IMC for that 1GB.
H83
Senior Member
Posts: 2619
Senior Member
Posts: 2619
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:02 PM
First of all, very nice article, i managed to understand most of it... Can´t wait for the review!
That Duke card is really a looker although my Duke card looks even better. Too bad MSI managed to ruin the looks of the gaming version... Nvidia´s FE look a lot like the cards from Pallit, at least to me.
Also 79$ for a SLI bridge??? Nvidia needs to stop copying Apple´s business practices...
First of all, very nice article, i managed to understand most of it... Can´t wait for the review!
That Duke card is really a looker although my Duke card looks even better. Too bad MSI managed to ruin the looks of the gaming version... Nvidia´s FE look a lot like the cards from Pallit, at least to me.
Also 79$ for a SLI bridge??? Nvidia needs to stop copying Apple´s business practices...
tunejunky
Senior Member
Posts: 845
Senior Member
Posts: 845
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:10 PM
just wow at these prices.
given that there is no need for any of these products the enthusiast market will quickly be tapped. and this is exactly why the 10xx is slow-walking its E.O.L.
even a competitive gamer can buy a 1080ti (at the lowest ever price) for half as much and have better performance in some scenarios.
my gawd, you can even buy a 1080 and a g-sync monitor together for less money... i'm shocked i can even say that.
all of this just to beat out C.E.S. and AMD's announcement of the first mid-level card with high-end performance.
just wow at these prices.
given that there is no need for any of these products the enthusiast market will quickly be tapped. and this is exactly why the 10xx is slow-walking its E.O.L.
even a competitive gamer can buy a 1080ti (at the lowest ever price) for half as much and have better performance in some scenarios.
my gawd, you can even buy a 1080 and a g-sync monitor together for less money... i'm shocked i can even say that.
all of this just to beat out C.E.S. and AMD's announcement of the first mid-level card with high-end performance.
StewieTech
Chuck Norris
Posts: 2538
Chuck Norris
Posts: 2538
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:20 PM
Yeah, what gives these prices? They´re stupid man...
For real, i can remember a time not too long ago when the top dawg went for 600 bucks.
Yeah, what gives these prices? They´re stupid man...
For real, i can remember a time not too long ago when the top dawg went for 600 bucks.
PrMinisterGR
Senior Member
Posts: 6972
Senior Member
Posts: 6972
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:28 PM
Great job Hilbert!
I know that everybody is justified to talk about the prices, but the tech itself looks crazy, I am genuinely impressed, especially considering that Nvidia didn't have to innovate at all. Pascal with +40% Shader engines would be enough for everyone to be satisfied, and much cheaper to produce.
Applause for the leather jacket.
I expect the initial benchmarks to be underwhelming, as this is a new architecture, but if Nvidia has a good driver for this at a point, it should be night and day with Pascal. The potential of the Tensor cores alone is insane.
Great job Hilbert!
I know that everybody is justified to talk about the prices, but the tech itself looks crazy, I am genuinely impressed, especially considering that Nvidia didn't have to innovate at all. Pascal with +40% Shader engines would be enough for everyone to be satisfied, and much cheaper to produce.
Applause for the leather jacket.
I expect the initial benchmarks to be underwhelming, as this is a new architecture, but if Nvidia has a good driver for this at a point, it should be night and day with Pascal. The potential of the Tensor cores alone is insane.
wavetrex
Senior Member
Posts: 457
Senior Member
Posts: 457
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:41 PM
I can do ~2100 with my 1080 if I want to, and running at 1930'ish out of the box in the games that I play.
2200 is unimpressive at all (but expected, since this is basically the same node, just slightly refined), and it will probably consume HUGE amounts of power at that frequency, given that Turing is a bigger chip with all those fancy semi-useless raytracing corez.
Really curious what the benchmarks will show compared to SIMILARLY PRICED Pascal:
So 2070 results vs 1080 Ti, and not vs 1070.
OC/2200 Ghz o_O nice
I can do ~2100 with my 1080 if I want to, and running at 1930'ish out of the box in the games that I play.
2200 is unimpressive at all (but expected, since this is basically the same node, just slightly refined), and it will probably consume HUGE amounts of power at that frequency, given that Turing is a bigger chip with all those fancy semi-useless raytracing corez.
Really curious what the benchmarks will show compared to SIMILARLY PRICED Pascal:
So 2070 results vs 1080 Ti, and not vs 1070.
JamesSneed
Senior Member
Posts: 472
Senior Member
Posts: 472
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:44 PM
Can't wait to see testing results. I have this sneaking suspicion that the improvements are not that great unless games are making use of new features. Just going off the onslaught of pre-launch marketing that we have seen.
Can't wait to see testing results. I have this sneaking suspicion that the improvements are not that great unless games are making use of new features. Just going off the onslaught of pre-launch marketing that we have seen.
Denial
Senior Member
Posts: 12053
Senior Member
Posts: 12053
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:45 PM
Great job Hilbert!
I know that everybody is justified to talk about the prices, but the tech itself looks crazy, I am genuinely impressed, especially considering that Nvidia didn't have to innovate at all. Pascal with +40% Shader engines would be enough for everyone to be satisfied, and much cheaper to produce.
Applause for the leather jacket.
I expect the initial benchmarks to be underwhelming, as this is a new architecture, but if Nvidia has a good driver for this at a point, it should be night and day with Pascal. The potential of the Tensor cores alone is insane.
Haven't seen you in a bit - how are things going?
@Hilbert Hagedoorn
Thanks for the article.
Can you post the full photo of DLSS comparison?
Also can you comment on this
"Another important change with NVLink SLI is that now each GPU can access the other's memory in a cache-coherent way, which lets them combine framebuffer sizes- something that was not possible with SLI before. The underlying reason is that the old SLI link was used to only transfer the final rendered frames to the master GPU, which would then combine them with its own frame data and then output the combined image on the monitor. In framebuffer-combined mode, each GPU will automatically route memory requests to the correct card no matter which GPU is asking for which chunk of memory."
You said that RTX cannot share memory.
Is this a software limitation where shared memory-access is limited to 'prosumer' cards?
I think that its more limited to prosumer workloads. The latency access across NVLink is too slow to complete rasterization tasks in the time required for realtime frame rendering. With certain workloads like data modeling and stuff, the card doesn't have to spit out a frame in X(ms).. it can take longer, in which case this can be useful. There may be upcoming graphics techniques where this can be applied but at the moment mGPU/SLI will continue to just share the frame buffer at the end.
Great job Hilbert!
I know that everybody is justified to talk about the prices, but the tech itself looks crazy, I am genuinely impressed, especially considering that Nvidia didn't have to innovate at all. Pascal with +40% Shader engines would be enough for everyone to be satisfied, and much cheaper to produce.
Applause for the leather jacket.
I expect the initial benchmarks to be underwhelming, as this is a new architecture, but if Nvidia has a good driver for this at a point, it should be night and day with Pascal. The potential of the Tensor cores alone is insane.
Haven't seen you in a bit - how are things going?
@Hilbert Hagedoorn
Thanks for the article.
Can you post the full photo of DLSS comparison?
Also can you comment on this
"Another important change with NVLink SLI is that now each GPU can access the other's memory in a cache-coherent way, which lets them combine framebuffer sizes- something that was not possible with SLI before. The underlying reason is that the old SLI link was used to only transfer the final rendered frames to the master GPU, which would then combine them with its own frame data and then output the combined image on the monitor. In framebuffer-combined mode, each GPU will automatically route memory requests to the correct card no matter which GPU is asking for which chunk of memory."
You said that RTX cannot share memory.
Is this a software limitation where shared memory-access is limited to 'prosumer' cards?
I think that its more limited to prosumer workloads. The latency access across NVLink is too slow to complete rasterization tasks in the time required for realtime frame rendering. With certain workloads like data modeling and stuff, the card doesn't have to spit out a frame in X(ms).. it can take longer, in which case this can be useful. There may be upcoming graphics techniques where this can be applied but at the moment mGPU/SLI will continue to just share the frame buffer at the end.
PrMinisterGR
Senior Member
Posts: 6972
Senior Member
Posts: 6972
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:54 PM
Haven't seen you in a bit - how are things going?
I think that its more limited to prosumer workloads. The latency access across NVLink is too slow to complete rasterization tasks in the time required for realtime frame rendering. With certain workloads like data modeling and stuff, the card doesn't have to spit out a frame in X(ms).. it can take longer, in which case this can be useful. There may be upcoming graphics techniques where this can be applied but at the moment mGPU/SLI will continue to just share the frame buffer at the end.
Hey man, just fine, but a different job role, I have missed you guys
I actually believe that AMD will compete with all this very soon, just not in the ultra high end. 750+mm wafers are an insane risk.
Haven't seen you in a bit - how are things going?
I think that its more limited to prosumer workloads. The latency access across NVLink is too slow to complete rasterization tasks in the time required for realtime frame rendering. With certain workloads like data modeling and stuff, the card doesn't have to spit out a frame in X(ms).. it can take longer, in which case this can be useful. There may be upcoming graphics techniques where this can be applied but at the moment mGPU/SLI will continue to just share the frame buffer at the end.
Hey man, just fine, but a different job role, I have missed you guys
I actually believe that AMD will compete with all this very soon, just not in the ultra high end. 750+mm wafers are an insane risk.
Noisiv
Senior Member
Posts: 6586
Senior Member
Posts: 6586
Posted on: 09/14/2018 05:55 PM
This is just an appetizer! Let the crow eating begin:
https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/design-visualization/technologies/turing-architecture/NVIDIA-Turing-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf
This is just an appetizer! Let the crow eating begin:
64x super-sampled AA is comparable to DLSS 2x
https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/design-visualization/technologies/turing-architecture/NVIDIA-Turing-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf
PrMinisterGR
Senior Member
Posts: 6972
Senior Member
Posts: 6972
Posted on: 09/14/2018 06:07 PM
It all depends on the quality of the model training. Nvidia exaggerates always, so hold a smaller basket.
It is still impressive and the only logical way forward. Both the machine learning and the partial ray tracing. If AMD was more liquid, we would have had these a bit earlier.
People also forget that we will have an Intel GPU in a couple of years. Things are bound to be more interesting then.
It all depends on the quality of the model training. Nvidia exaggerates always, so hold a smaller basket.
It is still impressive and the only logical way forward. Both the machine learning and the partial ray tracing. If AMD was more liquid, we would have had these a bit earlier.
People also forget that we will have an Intel GPU in a couple of years. Things are bound to be more interesting then.
chispy
Senior Member
Posts: 8739
Senior Member
Posts: 8739
Posted on: 09/14/2018 06:56 PM
That's a lot of new tech pack into this new video cards , great review @Hilbert Hagedoorn , it looks good but that price it is what turns off many people. Nevertheless great to see new technology moving forward.
That's a lot of new tech pack into this new video cards , great review @Hilbert Hagedoorn , it looks good but that price it is what turns off many people. Nevertheless great to see new technology moving forward.
pharma
Senior Member
Posts: 986
Senior Member
Posts: 986
Posted on: 09/14/2018 06:58 PM
Any new RTX tech/process adopted by competitors will need to be different so as not to infringe on Nvidia's hardware and software IP. In that aspect it may take longer to develop as opposed to licensing.
Any new RTX tech/process adopted by competitors will need to be different so as not to infringe on Nvidia's hardware and software IP. In that aspect it may take longer to develop as opposed to licensing.
Reddoguk
Senior Member
Posts: 1661
Senior Member
Posts: 1661
Posted on: 09/14/2018 07:27 PM
I personally think these first RTX cards will be a flop. They will sell but people have already realized that these cards with RT On won't be pushing out the performance they expected.
Real-Time Ray Tracing might be a cool new feature but the hardware to run that type of tech is not here yet.
I don't care too much about Ray Tracing if you can only hit 30-60fps at 1080p.
I personally think these first RTX cards will be a flop. They will sell but people have already realized that these cards with RT On won't be pushing out the performance they expected.
Real-Time Ray Tracing might be a cool new feature but the hardware to run that type of tech is not here yet.
I don't care too much about Ray Tracing if you can only hit 30-60fps at 1080p.
Solfaur
Senior Member
Posts: 7038
Senior Member
Posts: 7038
Posted on: 09/14/2018 07:28 PM
Strictly aesthetically speaking, I really dislike the MSI Gaming this time around, the design is a mess. I wonder how much better the cooling is compared to the Duke, which I find to look a lot better. And of course I'm looking forward to all the Turing reviews like everybody else, despite the fact that I'll most likely skip this generation. Nice preview boss.
Strictly aesthetically speaking, I really dislike the MSI Gaming this time around, the design is a mess. I wonder how much better the cooling is compared to the Duke, which I find to look a lot better. And of course I'm looking forward to all the Turing reviews like everybody else, despite the fact that I'll most likely skip this generation. Nice preview boss.
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Member
Posts: 25
I like the look of the Duke better than the Gaming Trio.