EU Could Cripple future graphics cards




Posted by Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 10/15/2012 05:20 AM | 50 comment(s) ]
A very interesting story appeared on a colleague website today. New information about a new energy law that will apply within the EU has surfaced on the web. The new law requires that both discrete and integrated graphics cards live up to certain energy standards. AMD is worried that this will affect next generation graphics cards and have them barred from sales in the EU. There are standardizations that make sure pre-built computers, but also discrete components, achieve a certain level of energy efficiency.
The story is reported by Nordic Hardware so credits and props to them, here's their skinny on it:
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Exactly how much depends on a row of criteria. These standards also include simple things, such as that after a certain amount of time the computer will enter sleep mode. The idea behind this is to have as energy efficient computers as possible to reduce the overall consumption of energy. The specification for the so called Eco design Lot 3 with the EC can be found here, where there are hundreds of pages to read for those with lots of time to spare.
FB_BW is short for Buffer Bandwidth. What we call memory bandwidth in graphics cards
There are currently seven specifications for graphics cards - G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6 and G7. Graphics cards of the G7 classification have a bandwidth of 128 GB/s (GigaByte per Second) and more, without an upper limit today. The category depends on the performance - in this case measured in memory bandwidth. These GPU categories are also paired with a certain level of energy efficiency. If a graphics card doesn't live up to the standard set by the EC it can be removed from all markets within the EU. The rules will now be constricted, which threatens next generation graphics cards.
The commission wants to stop dedicated graphics cards of group G7 from going above 320 GB/s - that is in theory a memory bus at 384-bit connected to memory operating at 6667 MHz or 512-bit with 5001 MHz. This is definitely within reach for the next generation graphics cards. Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition currently has a bandwidth of 288 GB/s with a 384-bit memory bus and 6000 MHz memory. For notebooks the limit will be only 225 GB/s.
Besides that the energy efficiency requirements will be tighter - in this case the energy consumption of the card in relation to its memory bandwidth. Performance delivered in games or general calculations are irrelevant. according to Lot 3. Exactly what the "performance" and energy consumption quote looks like we don't know at the time of writing, but it will also affect cards in the entry level segment and not just performance and enthusiast cards. The quote is strict enough to worry AMD.
Future generations are in danger
According to data NordicHardware has seen from a high level employee at AMD, current graphics cards are unable to meet with these requirements. This includes "GPUs like Cape Verde and Tahiti",that is used in the HD 7700 and HD 7900 series, and can't meet with the new guidelines, the same goes for the older "Caicos" that is used in the HD 6500/6600 and HD 7500/7600 series. Also "Oland"is mentioned, which is a future performance circuit from AMD, that according to rumors will be used in the future HD 8800 series. What worries AMD the most is how this will affect future graphics cards since the changes in Lot 3 will go into effect soon. The changes will of course affect Nvidia as much as it will AMD.
The commission guidelines could be too strict for next generation graphics cards
Earlier today there were talk about the new restrictions going into effect in early 2013, but now it looks like it will be 2014. This will put nearly unrealistic demands on both AMD and Nvidia. Besides the fact the standardization is not very logical since memory bandwidth does not translate into performance that easily we see it as a great obstacle for future graphics cards, but the revision of "Lot 3" is done and the wheels are set in motion.
According to a report published in August this year the current roadmaps [from AMD and Nvidia] does not support the new requirements up until 30 months into the future. The changes in Lot 3 will therefore be introduced in steps. The first will be in 2013 or 2014 as mentioned above, and thereafter new restrictions will apply in 2015. OEM companies like Dell and HP are well aware of this and worried about how this will affect their operations. The changes should also affect retail graphics cards and home builders.
Graphics card energy consumption has been rising steadily over the last couple of years. Last generation the limit for the PCI Express standard was broken when graphics cards sporting two GPUs consumed well over 300 watt, both from AMD and Nvidia. Both us and our well informed readers think that the way the EC is applying its restrictions is wrong, especially how it has decided to estimate performance. AMD is planning on making an official statement and hopefully the EC will listen. We have not been able to reach Nvidia for a comment on this issue, but hopefully they share AMD's concern.
We definitely feel that restrictions that lead to more efficient hardware is a good thing, but it needs to be done properly with the affected companies being involved in the discussion. We will of course follow up on this and return with more information when possible.
Via Nordic Hardware
EU Could Cripple future graphics cards
Ancient Guru
Posts: 3119
Joined: 2012-07-10
Those bloody Polar bears!
*Most of what you hear /see in mainstream media is bs, Polar bears can swim many many miles, the powers that be want a carbon tax from us, their web is widening that's for sure, but whatever.
Maha Guru
Posts: 1429
Joined: 2011-05-10
It was only a matter of time before this was coming. I mean, it may not be so bad if you think about it. Maybe this will force developers to use the current generations features instead of ignore them all of the time.
Sure but that'll be because we'll be sitting on current gen. performance for a long time just to suit the EU's standards. Considering this generation is pretty good when it comes to power/performance and still doesn't meet the requirements, we won't see decent performance cards each gen.
They need to put more thought into their restrictions, the way they're doing it will ruin progress and the companies.
Ancient Guru
Posts: 2762
Joined: 2010-08-27
They obviously have no idea about GPU's, and just doing what they think is necessary. Obviously you can't expect the card tiers to remain the same over future years, it would mean you'd halt progress.
A more logical approach would be to have a minimum GFlops/Watt requirement, and review this say, every 2 years as technology improves.
Master Guru
Posts: 790
Joined: 2004-05-15
WTH has memory speed to do with it? How about putting limits on the wattage require to say, run the memory, fully utilized GPU etc? That way, more efficient technologies ("green") will be used rather than keeping technology behind i.e. develop new gDDR with lower voltages etc.
Efficiency = performance/watt
Ancient Guru
Posts: 4875
Joined: 2005-02-25
If pushing in the direction of lower power consumption is a good thing, they have absolutely no idea on what is a gpu's and this type of technology.
Maha Guru
Posts: 1091
Joined: 2009-09-02
While this surely will hurt amd and nvidia in terms of their discrete graphics, im sure this will help amd and intel (mainly amd) out in terms of their APU's with how strong thier intergrated gpus are going.
I think this is what EU is hoping for, the single chip systems intergrating as much as possible into the one chip, minimising power output.
also, minimising performance
coz we all know a decent discrete card wipes out any onboard gpu.
Sucks for us highend gamers and enthusiasts because of the reasons already mentioned above.
Maha Guru
Posts: 1036
Joined: 2005-08-12
Limiting memory bandwidth makes no sense at all.
These guys have not enough real-life problems and way too much time to come up with such bs!
Master Guru
Posts: 330
Joined: 2007-05-31
WTH has memory speed to do with it? How about putting limits on the wattage require to say, run the memory, fully utilized GPU etc? That way, more efficient technologies ("green") will be used rather than keeping technology behind i.e. develop new gDDR with lower voltages etc.
Efficiency = performance/watt
as i work with EC law all the time i can tell you that it is not the most stupid one they are doing...
some are worse (yes it is possible lol)
99% of EC seem to be done by moron and citizen have no word to said about it... maybe it is the reason why we are more and more nationalist in EC (not even talking about EC tax that kill any innovative thing...)...
Bad or not future will tell us as alway.
Master Guru
Posts: 330
Joined: 2007-05-31
While this surely will hurt amd and nvidia in terms of their discrete graphics, im sure this will help amd and intel (mainly amd) out in terms of their APU's with how strong thier intergrated gpus are going.
I think this is what EU is hoping for, the single chip systems intergrating as much as possible into the one chip, minimising power output.
also, minimising performance
coz we all know a decent discrete card wipes out any onboard gpu.
Sucks for us highend gamers and enthusiasts because of the reasons already mentioned above.
nope AMD is as NVidia
(yeah intel's discrete suck anyway)Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 2008-08-31
I think it only sound so bad. it only make much more room for tweaking Gpu.
AMD and nvidia will make GPU which will be on paper perform the way EU want.
But we home use have much more to OC. I think it will by more funn.
Maha Guru
Posts: 2675
Joined: 2010-11-16
Oh so now it's "could cripple".
Original article @ stated EU cripples future graphics cards
Of course this PRELIMINARY REPORT that NordicHardware's full-retard scribble points to,
Let me repeat that:
Maha Guru
Posts: 1036
Joined: 2005-08-12
I think it only sound so bad. it only make much more room for tweaking Gpu.
AMD and nvidia will make GPU which will be on paper perform the way EU want.
But we home use have much more to OC. I think it will by more funn.
Why would putting restrictions on one part of the computer be good or fun? Who needs tweaking if you could buy a better card to start with? Or buy a better card and tweak the **** out of it?
The only way I can see the sense in this statement is releasing a crippled card with some kind of "unlock" feature.
Ancient Guru
Posts: 5196
Joined: 2005-08-05
If this is true, it's one of the most dumbest ways to do it.
Really? Limiting memory bandwith by law? Why would you do that?
I can imagine putting limits on energy usage, but this would mean that if the limit is reached, that a more energy efficient GPU of the next generation would be banned and an energy hungry one of this generation is ok.
....Incompetence, the bane of our civilisation.
Maha Guru
Posts: 2534
Joined: 2009-12-29
Umm... The report is very in deph and it looks like the people who did it knows about hardware (plus I don't see any mention of bandwidth limit), power consumption, efficiency and so on.
Its fine by me. Hopefully the rest of the world will catch up. That way companies will not get away with releasing clearly bad products (ie, FX5900, Pentium 4s or even Bulldozer), and energy will not be wasted for the sake of selling something.

Ancient Guru
Posts: 4917
Joined: 2004-10-30
It was only a matter of time before this was coming. I mean, it may not be so bad if you think about it. Maybe this will force developers to use the current generations features instead of ignore them all of the time.
And by that I mean DX11 and Tessellation. C'mon Devs out there, you know what I'm talking about here. Let DX9 go, keep it an option to enable or disable DX11 more often.
Use and have fun with what you can access through DX11. We sorta need to put hardware on halt imo anyway, and let software catch up.
Microsoft can keep releasing DX 12, DX 13...DX 14 or whatever all they want. Developers still wont use those until more users catch up to more current DX11 hardware.