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Downgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 7
In his blog post, usability expert Jakob Nielsen of the Nielsen Norman Group explained in excruciating detail exactly why and how Windows 8 is difficult to use. It was a damning report that might have many questioning whether to take the Windows 8 plunge. The good news is you can buy a PC loaded with Windows 8 Pro, try out the new OS, and then downgrade to Windows 7. Unfortunately, however, the road back to Windows 7 can be confusing and full of twists.
Hewlett-Packard is typical: It does not support downgrades of consumer-grade Windows 8 PCs to Windows 7. But if you buy a machine loaded with Windows 8 Pro, you can make the jump. HP's policy is based on Microsoft's licensing terms, which support downgrade rights only to new PCs preloaded with Windows 8 Pro, the version of Windows designed for business.
Unfortunately, machines loaded with Windows 8 Pro will demand a pricing premium over similarly spec'd Windows 8 systems. We ran a quick comparison survey of machines from HP, Dell, and Toshiba, and found that an upgrade to the Pro version of Windows 8 increased system prices anywhere between $35 and $100.
And even when the price delta is small enough to justify buying a Windows 8 Pro machine (complete with downgrade rights!), the downgrade process can still be difficult to figure out. When PCWorld researched this, sales and support reps for both Microsoft and major PC manufacturers told us two different stories.
A Dell representative said that to downgrade from Windows 8, you needed to buy a new, unused copy of Windows 7—thus making the whole point of having downgrade rights pointless. Another representative said a Windows 7 disc image would be built into new Windows 8 Pro machines. This contradicts pretty much everything Microsoft has ever posted online about downgrade rights.
But after scouring Microsoft's online support pages, checking out real-world downgrade experiences on various forums, and then confirming the process with Microsoft's press team, we can now share the truth about how downgrades work for anyone with a PC running Windows 8 Pro.
Microsoft Extends XP Downgrade Availability Until 2011 - 06/21/2009 06:33 AM
Somehow Microsoft doesn't seem to be able to get rid of Windows XP. Although the downgrade deadline was pushed back several times already, Microsoft decided to do it yet once again. This time it is a ...
Windows users will be allowed to downgrade to XP from Win7, skip Vista - 04/07/2009 09:03 AM
Windows XP is a solid operating system, if a bit outdated. The Windows 7 Beta has been promising, and is a definite improvement in both speed and stability over Windows Vista. However, some people mig...
Microsoft XP downgrades extended to July 2009 - 10/05/2008 10:12 AM
It looks like Windows XP will have another extra 6 months before getting a neck-shot from Microsoft. Microsoft has extended its Windows XP downgrade program for six months past its original cutoff dat...
HP now available:Mini-Note PCs with Windows XP as a downgrade - 05/13/2008 05:30 AM
HP 2133 Mini-Note PC- models One note: Genuine Windows Vista Business installed but downgraded to Genuine Windows XP Professional. http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/321957-321957-64295-...
Lycronis
Maha Guru
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Posts: 1039
Joined: 2003-09-17
#4464798 Posted on: 11/27/2012 10:05 PM
To those who apply: I absolutely respect your guys' opinions so please do the same for me. I know you guys have your reasons for sticking with Windows 7, and I completely respect that, but please don't assume I'm an arrogant, mindless individual who's blindly supporting something that in actuality I would drop in a second if it didn't meet my needs and expectations. I know exactly what I like and what I don't like when it comes to the things I use every day, and whether it be a video game or an operating system, if I don't like it, I avoid it.
And as vbetts said, there's absolutely no reason to resort to name calling. We all have a common interest that brings us here to Guru3D and we shouldn't make that interest coming here just to degrade ourselves by bickering and spitting insults amongst each other like teenagers in the comments section of youtube. We're all better than that.
Well said! This is one of the best posts I've read in quite some time. I wish more people felt this way. Kudos to you!
To those who apply: I absolutely respect your guys' opinions so please do the same for me. I know you guys have your reasons for sticking with Windows 7, and I completely respect that, but please don't assume I'm an arrogant, mindless individual who's blindly supporting something that in actuality I would drop in a second if it didn't meet my needs and expectations. I know exactly what I like and what I don't like when it comes to the things I use every day, and whether it be a video game or an operating system, if I don't like it, I avoid it.
And as vbetts said, there's absolutely no reason to resort to name calling. We all have a common interest that brings us here to Guru3D and we shouldn't make that interest coming here just to degrade ourselves by bickering and spitting insults amongst each other like teenagers in the comments section of youtube. We're all better than that.
Well said! This is one of the best posts I've read in quite some time. I wish more people felt this way. Kudos to you!
sw1000xg
Master Guru
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Master Guru
Posts: 232
Joined: 2009-02-10
#4464804 Posted on: 11/27/2012 10:10 PM
NO idea why people hate Vista so much, I used it for Gaming, the Internet and Por... Er moving on! And All I had problems with was, it was a bit slower than W7 and a few driver problems, that didn't eff up my day to day usage, but did annoy that W7 fixed! Nothing else!
Only the die hard hardcore computer programing nerd would complain about!
But other than above I didn't mind it!
NO idea why people hate Vista so much, I used it for Gaming, the Internet and Por... Er moving on! And All I had problems with was, it was a bit slower than W7 and a few driver problems, that didn't eff up my day to day usage, but did annoy that W7 fixed! Nothing else!
Only the die hard hardcore computer programing nerd would complain about!
But other than above I didn't mind it!
kanej2007
Ancient Guru
Posts: 5774
Joined: 2007-08-07
Ancient Guru
Posts: 5774
Joined: 2007-08-07
#4465132 Posted on: 11/28/2012 06:13 AM
NO idea why people hate Vista so much, I used it for Gaming, the Internet and Por... Er moving on! And All I had problems with was, it was a bit slower than W7 and a few driver problems, that didn't eff up my day to day usage, but did annoy that W7 fixed! Nothing else!
Only the die hard hardcore computer programing nerd would complain about!
But other than above I didn't mind it!
Well said. Windows 7 is what Vista SHOULD of been. Though Vista worked & was an improvement over Windows XP, it was slightly sluggish, heavy on resources & had some driver issues.
Windows 8 is a more polished & better looking OS than 7. It looks slightly different but it's something we have to get used to. Sooner or later many people will eventually upgrade or switch to Windows 8.
NO idea why people hate Vista so much, I used it for Gaming, the Internet and Por... Er moving on! And All I had problems with was, it was a bit slower than W7 and a few driver problems, that didn't eff up my day to day usage, but did annoy that W7 fixed! Nothing else!
Only the die hard hardcore computer programing nerd would complain about!
But other than above I didn't mind it!
Well said. Windows 7 is what Vista SHOULD of been. Though Vista worked & was an improvement over Windows XP, it was slightly sluggish, heavy on resources & had some driver issues.
Windows 8 is a more polished & better looking OS than 7. It looks slightly different but it's something we have to get used to. Sooner or later many people will eventually upgrade or switch to Windows 8.
kitch9
Maha Guru
Posts: 1862
Joined: 2005-01-07
Maha Guru
Posts: 1862
Joined: 2005-01-07
#4465615 Posted on: 11/28/2012 04:23 PM
In his blog post, usability expert Jakob Nielsen of the Nielsen Norman Group explained in excruciating detail exactly why and how Windows 8 is difficult to use. It was a damning report that might have...
Downgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 7
Hilbert, the same moron put in his blog that you can't multi-task in 8 and have multiple windows open which is a complete fabrication.... The only thing damning is the guys obvious stupidity....
The Start menu in 8 is just the start menu same as its always been, you can have what you want in there and remove what you don't want same as its always been....If you don't want the full screen apps in Start remove them and just have there what you find important, set Start up right and its far easier than digging round the old Starts small folder trees to get to anything. The retard in the "blog" clearly did not understand that concept, and the fact the desktop is the same as its always been and you can have as many windows open as you want.
In his blog post, usability expert Jakob Nielsen of the Nielsen Norman Group explained in excruciating detail exactly why and how Windows 8 is difficult to use. It was a damning report that might have...
Downgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 7
Hilbert, the same moron put in his blog that you can't multi-task in 8 and have multiple windows open which is a complete fabrication.... The only thing damning is the guys obvious stupidity....
The Start menu in 8 is just the start menu same as its always been, you can have what you want in there and remove what you don't want same as its always been....If you don't want the full screen apps in Start remove them and just have there what you find important, set Start up right and its far easier than digging round the old Starts small folder trees to get to anything. The retard in the "blog" clearly did not understand that concept, and the fact the desktop is the same as its always been and you can have as many windows open as you want.
Nchinmay
Master Guru
Posts: 210
Joined: 2010-08-21
Master Guru
Posts: 210
Joined: 2010-08-21
#4465648 Posted on: 11/28/2012 05:07 PM
I came here expecting a clean downgrade procedure
I came here expecting a clean downgrade procedure
INSTG8R
Maha Guru
Posts: 1188
Joined: 2005-03-18
Maha Guru
Posts: 1188
Joined: 2005-03-18
#4465818 Posted on: 11/28/2012 07:55 PM
I don't hate on 8 because I have no personal experience with it. I will stick with 7 until something comes up that I would NEED 8. What I don't like about 8 on the surface is it's intent. It's a "Tablet OS" intended for Touch Screens. Just look around, manufactures are pouring out full size touch screen monitors for just that reason. IMO that is where alot of the hate with the Start UI comes from, it was never intended to be navigated with a mouse to begin with.
The thought of having my main PC with a touch screen monitor to me is absurd(But has a certain "cool factor" to it tho) I will have to have a cloth right next to my hand so I can wipe it down after every time I touch it. I can even stand the slightest spec on my monitor, constantly covered in fingerprints? Your Mad!
I don't hate on 8 because I have no personal experience with it. I will stick with 7 until something comes up that I would NEED 8. What I don't like about 8 on the surface is it's intent. It's a "Tablet OS" intended for Touch Screens. Just look around, manufactures are pouring out full size touch screen monitors for just that reason. IMO that is where alot of the hate with the Start UI comes from, it was never intended to be navigated with a mouse to begin with.
The thought of having my main PC with a touch screen monitor to me is absurd(But has a certain "cool factor" to it tho) I will have to have a cloth right next to my hand so I can wipe it down after every time I touch it. I can even stand the slightest spec on my monitor, constantly covered in fingerprints? Your Mad!
Denial
Ancient Guru
Posts: 6374
Joined: 2004-05-16
Ancient Guru
Posts: 6374
Joined: 2004-05-16
#4465845 Posted on: 11/28/2012 08:15 PM
This right here is why I cannot stand the Windows 8 discussion because what you just wrote is wrong. I'll give people complaining about how ugly it is, how metro takes up everything, how unintitutive some of the menus are, etc -- all those things are definitely problems and arguable. But as a person who has always used a mouse and keyboard, I have absolutely not a single issue navigating metro at all and neither do any of the people who's machines I've installed it on.
Not only that but Microsoft wrote an entire blog post like 10 paragraphs long detailing exactly how they designed the interface to be used for a mouse and how they talked about how they had people come in and use the damn thing and shown that it actually took people shorter amounts of time to navigate to said programs. Then they also proved via a mathematical equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law) that the effective hit zone of each icon in metro is significantly higher than the old start menu method.
vs
So I really don't get where this whole "OMG ITS COMPLETELY DESIGNED FOR TOUCHSCREENS" crap comes from. There is a lot of bad design decisions with the OS, but if you have problems navigating the OS with a mouse and keyboard (outside the time it takes to adjust, which I think is the problem most people are having, they try it for 3 seconds and then go cry a river about it) the problem is with you and not 8.
Edit: And most of this isn't aimed at you, because by your own admittance you haven't tried it -- but i'm just tired of hearing this thrown around.
I have a lot of problems with this OS. The duplicate functionality of some of the control panels and stuff is extremely retarded. The hot corners are annoying more than helpful. Even dual wallpapers is screwed up (you can't disable switching, so they change screens every x amount of time). The contrast is screwed up (try changing the color of the taskbar to black then say goodbye to title text, minimize, maximize!). It takes like 30 clicks to get to the shut down button. Try entering safemode/preboot thingy when you have a user login problem, have fun with that. Trust me -- I can write a list a mile long about stupid **** they did. But the mouse/keyboard thing is just nonsense.
it was never intended to be navigated with a mouse to begin with.
This right here is why I cannot stand the Windows 8 discussion because what you just wrote is wrong. I'll give people complaining about how ugly it is, how metro takes up everything, how unintitutive some of the menus are, etc -- all those things are definitely problems and arguable. But as a person who has always used a mouse and keyboard, I have absolutely not a single issue navigating metro at all and neither do any of the people who's machines I've installed it on.
Not only that but Microsoft wrote an entire blog post like 10 paragraphs long detailing exactly how they designed the interface to be used for a mouse and how they talked about how they had people come in and use the damn thing and shown that it actually took people shorter amounts of time to navigate to said programs. Then they also proved via a mathematical equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law) that the effective hit zone of each icon in metro is significantly higher than the old start menu method.
vs
So I really don't get where this whole "OMG ITS COMPLETELY DESIGNED FOR TOUCHSCREENS" crap comes from. There is a lot of bad design decisions with the OS, but if you have problems navigating the OS with a mouse and keyboard (outside the time it takes to adjust, which I think is the problem most people are having, they try it for 3 seconds and then go cry a river about it) the problem is with you and not 8.
Edit: And most of this isn't aimed at you, because by your own admittance you haven't tried it -- but i'm just tired of hearing this thrown around.
I have a lot of problems with this OS. The duplicate functionality of some of the control panels and stuff is extremely retarded. The hot corners are annoying more than helpful. Even dual wallpapers is screwed up (you can't disable switching, so they change screens every x amount of time). The contrast is screwed up (try changing the color of the taskbar to black then say goodbye to title text, minimize, maximize!). It takes like 30 clicks to get to the shut down button. Try entering safemode/preboot thingy when you have a user login problem, have fun with that. Trust me -- I can write a list a mile long about stupid **** they did. But the mouse/keyboard thing is just nonsense.
Black_ice_Spain
Ancient Guru
Posts: 4164
Joined: 2008-05-08
Ancient Guru
Posts: 4164
Joined: 2008-05-08
#4465860 Posted on: 11/28/2012 08:29 PM
This right here is why I cannot stand the Windows 8 discussion because what you just wrote is wrong. I'll give people complaining about how ugly it is, how metro takes up everything, how unintitutive some of the menus are, etc -- all those things are definitely problems and arguable. But as a person who has always used a mouse and keyboard, I have absolutely not a single issue navigating metro at all and neither do any of the people who's machines I've installed it on.
Not only that but Microsoft wrote an entire blog post like 10 paragraphs long detailing exactly how they designed the interface to be used for a mouse and how they talked about how they had people come in and use the damn thing and shown that it actually took people shorter amounts of time to navigate to said programs. Then they also proved via a mathematical equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law) that the effective hit zone of each icon in metro is significantly higher than the old start menu method.
So I really don't get where this whole "OMG ITS COMPLETELY DESIGNED FOR TOUCHSCREENS" crap comes from. There is a lot of bad design decisions with the OS, but if you have problems navigating the OS with a mouse and keyboard (outside the time it takes to adjust, which I think is the problem most people are having, they try it for 3 seconds and then go cry a river about it) the problem is with you and not 8.
Edit: And most of this isn't aimed at you, because by your own admittance you haven't tried it -- but i'm just tired of hearing this thrown around.
I have a lot of problems with this OS. The duplicate functionality of some of the control panels and stuff is extremely retarded. The hot corners are annoying more than helpful. Even dual wallpapers is screwed up (you can't disable switching, so they change screens every x amount of time). The contrast is screwed up (try changing the color of the taskbar to black then say goodbye to title text, minimize, maximize!). It takes like 30 clicks to get to the shut down button. Try entering safemode/preboot thingy when you have a user login problem, have fun with that. Trust me -- I can write a list a mile long about stupid **** they did. But the mouse/keyboard thing is just nonsense.
the OS gives me nothing over win7, apart from young drivers and an interface which is a pain in the ass, yeah they can design metro like that, an uber start menu, then why that **** has only one window capability, and desktop its like in another part of the OS? seems legit that they designed with for KB/Mouse...
This right here is why I cannot stand the Windows 8 discussion because what you just wrote is wrong. I'll give people complaining about how ugly it is, how metro takes up everything, how unintitutive some of the menus are, etc -- all those things are definitely problems and arguable. But as a person who has always used a mouse and keyboard, I have absolutely not a single issue navigating metro at all and neither do any of the people who's machines I've installed it on.
Not only that but Microsoft wrote an entire blog post like 10 paragraphs long detailing exactly how they designed the interface to be used for a mouse and how they talked about how they had people come in and use the damn thing and shown that it actually took people shorter amounts of time to navigate to said programs. Then they also proved via a mathematical equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law) that the effective hit zone of each icon in metro is significantly higher than the old start menu method.
So I really don't get where this whole "OMG ITS COMPLETELY DESIGNED FOR TOUCHSCREENS" crap comes from. There is a lot of bad design decisions with the OS, but if you have problems navigating the OS with a mouse and keyboard (outside the time it takes to adjust, which I think is the problem most people are having, they try it for 3 seconds and then go cry a river about it) the problem is with you and not 8.
Edit: And most of this isn't aimed at you, because by your own admittance you haven't tried it -- but i'm just tired of hearing this thrown around.
I have a lot of problems with this OS. The duplicate functionality of some of the control panels and stuff is extremely retarded. The hot corners are annoying more than helpful. Even dual wallpapers is screwed up (you can't disable switching, so they change screens every x amount of time). The contrast is screwed up (try changing the color of the taskbar to black then say goodbye to title text, minimize, maximize!). It takes like 30 clicks to get to the shut down button. Try entering safemode/preboot thingy when you have a user login problem, have fun with that. Trust me -- I can write a list a mile long about stupid **** they did. But the mouse/keyboard thing is just nonsense.
the OS gives me nothing over win7, apart from young drivers and an interface which is a pain in the ass, yeah they can design metro like that, an uber start menu, then why that **** has only one window capability, and desktop its like in another part of the OS? seems legit that they designed with for KB/Mouse...
Denial
Ancient Guru
Posts: 6374
Joined: 2004-05-16
Ancient Guru
Posts: 6374
Joined: 2004-05-16
#4465875 Posted on: 11/28/2012 08:42 PM
You listed a bunch of things, some of which I agree with, then concluded with something completely different and irrelevant to the rest of the post. What does metro taking up the full screen have to do with navigating the interface with a keyboard and mouse? You realize that there are plenty of multi-screen interfaces with touch support correct? The two are not mutual. And you can't use one to prove the inadequacy of the other.
And honestly I don't really see the problem with start menu taking up the entire screen. I can't think of a single time it interfered with what I was doing. In fact even the design schism between the two doesn't impact my usability at all. It's ugly for sure, but I don't find it impeding my work what-so-ever.
the OS gives me nothing over win7, apart from young drivers and an interface which is a pain in the ass, yeah they can design metro like that, an uber start menu, then why that **** has only one window capability, and desktop its like in another part of the OS? seems legit that they designed with for KB/Mouse...
You listed a bunch of things, some of which I agree with, then concluded with something completely different and irrelevant to the rest of the post. What does metro taking up the full screen have to do with navigating the interface with a keyboard and mouse? You realize that there are plenty of multi-screen interfaces with touch support correct? The two are not mutual. And you can't use one to prove the inadequacy of the other.
And honestly I don't really see the problem with start menu taking up the entire screen. I can't think of a single time it interfered with what I was doing. In fact even the design schism between the two doesn't impact my usability at all. It's ugly for sure, but I don't find it impeding my work what-so-ever.
INSTG8R
Maha Guru
Posts: 1188
Joined: 2005-03-18
Maha Guru
Posts: 1188
Joined: 2005-03-18
#4465880 Posted on: 11/28/2012 08:47 PM
This right here is why I cannot stand the Windows 8 discussion because what you just wrote is wrong. I'll give people complaining about how ugly it is, how metro takes up everything, how unintitutive some of the menus are, etc -- all those things are definitely problems and arguable. But as a person who has always used a mouse and keyboard, I have absolutely not a single issue navigating metro at all and neither do any of the people who's machines I've installed it on.
Not only that but Microsoft wrote an entire blog post like 10 paragraphs long detailing exactly how they designed the interface to be used for a mouse and how they talked about how they had people come in and use the damn thing and shown that it actually took people shorter amounts of time to navigate to said programs. Then they also proved via a mathematical equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law) that the effective hit zone of each icon in metro is significantly higher than the old start menu method.
vs
So I really don't get where this whole "OMG ITS COMPLETELY DESIGNED FOR TOUCHSCREENS" crap comes from. There is a lot of bad design decisions with the OS, but if you have problems navigating the OS with a mouse and keyboard (outside the time it takes to adjust, which I think is the problem most people are having, they try it for 3 seconds and then go cry a river about it) the problem is with you and not 8.
Edit: And most of this isn't aimed at you, because by your own admittance you haven't tried it -- but i'm just tired of hearing this thrown around.
I have a lot of problems with this OS. The duplicate functionality of some of the control panels and stuff is extremely retarded. The hot corners are annoying more than helpful. Even dual wallpapers is screwed up (you can't disable switching, so they change screens every x amount of time). The contrast is screwed up (try changing the color of the taskbar to black then say goodbye to title text, minimize, maximize!). It takes like 30 clicks to get to the shut down button. Try entering safemode/preboot thingy when you have a user login problem, have fun with that. Trust me -- I can write a list a mile long about stupid **** they did. But the mouse/keyboard thing is just nonsense.
Will you at least admit that the interface is perfectly suited to a touch screen environment? I mean I have see it on Tablets it doesn't look any different and the touch interface works seamlessly with the very same UI.(As IMHO it was intended too)
This right here is why I cannot stand the Windows 8 discussion because what you just wrote is wrong. I'll give people complaining about how ugly it is, how metro takes up everything, how unintitutive some of the menus are, etc -- all those things are definitely problems and arguable. But as a person who has always used a mouse and keyboard, I have absolutely not a single issue navigating metro at all and neither do any of the people who's machines I've installed it on.
Not only that but Microsoft wrote an entire blog post like 10 paragraphs long detailing exactly how they designed the interface to be used for a mouse and how they talked about how they had people come in and use the damn thing and shown that it actually took people shorter amounts of time to navigate to said programs. Then they also proved via a mathematical equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law) that the effective hit zone of each icon in metro is significantly higher than the old start menu method.
vs
So I really don't get where this whole "OMG ITS COMPLETELY DESIGNED FOR TOUCHSCREENS" crap comes from. There is a lot of bad design decisions with the OS, but if you have problems navigating the OS with a mouse and keyboard (outside the time it takes to adjust, which I think is the problem most people are having, they try it for 3 seconds and then go cry a river about it) the problem is with you and not 8.
Edit: And most of this isn't aimed at you, because by your own admittance you haven't tried it -- but i'm just tired of hearing this thrown around.
I have a lot of problems with this OS. The duplicate functionality of some of the control panels and stuff is extremely retarded. The hot corners are annoying more than helpful. Even dual wallpapers is screwed up (you can't disable switching, so they change screens every x amount of time). The contrast is screwed up (try changing the color of the taskbar to black then say goodbye to title text, minimize, maximize!). It takes like 30 clicks to get to the shut down button. Try entering safemode/preboot thingy when you have a user login problem, have fun with that. Trust me -- I can write a list a mile long about stupid **** they did. But the mouse/keyboard thing is just nonsense.
Will you at least admit that the interface is perfectly suited to a touch screen environment? I mean I have see it on Tablets it doesn't look any different and the touch interface works seamlessly with the very same UI.(As IMHO it was intended too)
Redemption80
Ancient Guru
Posts: 13542
Joined: 2009-01-06
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Posts: 13542
Joined: 2009-01-06
#4465888 Posted on: 11/28/2012 09:01 PM
If it wasn't then why would they bother with Surface.
I have yet to try one of them, but it's also perfectly suited to mouse and keyboard as well, even things like shut down have yet to be an issue as i haven't used the mouse to shut down a PC in god knows how many years.
I only started using it on Sunday and i'm already starting to really enjoy using it, it's surprising how quickly you go from hate and confusion to like and smiles, frequently find myself going "ah right, nice"
If it wasn't then why would they bother with Surface.
I have yet to try one of them, but it's also perfectly suited to mouse and keyboard as well, even things like shut down have yet to be an issue as i haven't used the mouse to shut down a PC in god knows how many years.
I only started using it on Sunday and i'm already starting to really enjoy using it, it's surprising how quickly you go from hate and confusion to like and smiles, frequently find myself going "ah right, nice"
Denial
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Joined: 2004-05-16
Ancient Guru
Posts: 6374
Joined: 2004-05-16
#4465890 Posted on: 11/28/2012 09:02 PM
Of course ill admit that - it was designed to suit both and it works extremely well with both.
Will you at least admit that the interface is perfectly suited to a touch screen environment? I mean I have see it on Tablets it doesn't look any different and the touch interface works seamlessly with the very same UI.(As IMHO it was intended too)
Of course ill admit that - it was designed to suit both and it works extremely well with both.
Black_ice_Spain
Ancient Guru
Posts: 4164
Joined: 2008-05-08
Ancient Guru
Posts: 4164
Joined: 2008-05-08
#4465943 Posted on: 11/28/2012 10:25 PM
You listed a bunch of things, some of which I agree with, then concluded with something completely different and irrelevant to the rest of the post. What does metro taking up the full screen have to do with navigating the interface with a keyboard and mouse? You realize that there are plenty of multi-screen interfaces with touch support correct? The two are not mutual. And you can't use one to prove the inadequacy of the other.
And honestly I don't really see the problem with start menu taking up the entire screen. I can't think of a single time it interfered with what I was doing. In fact even the design schism between the two doesn't impact my usability at all. It's ugly for sure, but I don't find it impeding my work what-so-ever.
i have no problem with the big start menu, but i mean, if they didnt design it aiming tablets, why is metro like an alternative-capped-desktop with big buttons :S, makes no sense to me. Single window... well, its a mess, okay lets asume its a mess and done. It's not that i dislike being tablet-designed, but metro it's wrong and sucks, at least when you try to use it for more than start menu.
Plus they inteded to force it for the PC users ._.
You listed a bunch of things, some of which I agree with, then concluded with something completely different and irrelevant to the rest of the post. What does metro taking up the full screen have to do with navigating the interface with a keyboard and mouse? You realize that there are plenty of multi-screen interfaces with touch support correct? The two are not mutual. And you can't use one to prove the inadequacy of the other.
And honestly I don't really see the problem with start menu taking up the entire screen. I can't think of a single time it interfered with what I was doing. In fact even the design schism between the two doesn't impact my usability at all. It's ugly for sure, but I don't find it impeding my work what-so-ever.
i have no problem with the big start menu, but i mean, if they didnt design it aiming tablets, why is metro like an alternative-capped-desktop with big buttons :S, makes no sense to me. Single window... well, its a mess, okay lets asume its a mess and done. It's not that i dislike being tablet-designed, but metro it's wrong and sucks, at least when you try to use it for more than start menu.
Plus they inteded to force it for the PC users ._.
Denial
Ancient Guru
Posts: 6374
Joined: 2004-05-16
Ancient Guru
Posts: 6374
Joined: 2004-05-16
#4465967 Posted on: 11/28/2012 10:51 PM
i have no problem with the big start menu, but i mean, if they didnt design it aiming tablets, why is metro like an alternative-capped-desktop with big buttons :S, makes no sense to me. Single window... well, its a mess, okay lets asume its a mess and done. It's not that i dislike being tablet-designed, but metro it's wrong and sucks, at least when you try to use it for more than start menu.
Plus they inteded to force it for the PC users ._.
I didn't say they didn't design it with tablets in mind. They obviously did. But keyboard and mouse use wasn't forgotten, the changes they made significantly improved tablet usage, and slightly improved keyboard/mouse usage, for the start menu. As for Metro apps, the navigation of them is fine, but they definitely need a way to run multiple versions in some kind of windowed system. Some android partners (samsung) are starting to do this with their phones/tablets -- Microsoft probably will be forced to do something similar at some point in the future.
i have no problem with the big start menu, but i mean, if they didnt design it aiming tablets, why is metro like an alternative-capped-desktop with big buttons :S, makes no sense to me. Single window... well, its a mess, okay lets asume its a mess and done. It's not that i dislike being tablet-designed, but metro it's wrong and sucks, at least when you try to use it for more than start menu.
Plus they inteded to force it for the PC users ._.
I didn't say they didn't design it with tablets in mind. They obviously did. But keyboard and mouse use wasn't forgotten, the changes they made significantly improved tablet usage, and slightly improved keyboard/mouse usage, for the start menu. As for Metro apps, the navigation of them is fine, but they definitely need a way to run multiple versions in some kind of windowed system. Some android partners (samsung) are starting to do this with their phones/tablets -- Microsoft probably will be forced to do something similar at some point in the future.
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Master Guru
Posts: 641
Joined: 2003-10-28
To those who apply: I absolutely respect your guys' opinions so please do the same for me. I know you guys have your reasons for sticking with Windows 7, and I completely respect that, but please don't assume I'm an arrogant, mindless individual who's blindly supporting something that in actuality I would drop in a second if it didn't meet my needs and expectations. I know exactly what I like and what I don't like when it comes to the things I use every day, and whether it be a video game or an operating system, if I don't like it, I avoid it.
And as vbetts said, there's absolutely no reason to resort to name calling. We all have a common interest that brings us here to Guru3D and we shouldn't make that interest coming here just to degrade ourselves by bickering and spitting insults amongst each other like teenagers in the comments section of youtube. We're all better than that.